lionheart320

I have a 1992 SE with 174,019 miles. My vtc's could be mistaken for a machine gun/ diesel prior to my last oil change. Anyway a friend of mine grant93se suggested a BG product called MOA. I added this on my last oil change at 174,000 miles and took the car for a spin. After it circulated though the system for about 3-5 min. my vtc's were absolutely quiet!!!!! This product is amazing, it comes in a 11oz can and retails for about $10. However you must add this at every oil change (or between oil changes)to keep them quiet, as the oil gallies will eventually become resticted and the sprockets will not receive any lubrication, thus the clattering begins. I live in Tulsa and purchased it at a local import shop called Super Wrench which carries BG products.

jwmaxse

iTrader: (1)

I hear that BG products are very good, I have a hard time finding them for sale to consumers though.

erty67

iTrader: (104)

hmm....any other feedback on this product?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Try this..........http://www.bgprod.com/bgconsumer/tdc.html

click on the bg distributor locator link to find the one nearest to you.

Wiking

Thats basic requirement before medicating u horses. If the engine is a goner, who cares - then its good to tst anythin...

Dunno that stuff at all, in gerenral some less known lubricants are really superb and actually cure certain problematic mechanisms from brakin all the time. But in this case: if VTC 'benefits', does it fit all other [plenty] mechanisms?

Still one thing I know for sure: snake oil liniments cure all; all proven by sellers thick wallet. How to evaluate: "cure all" is a key statement.

Vadim-93GXE

I think I seen a write-up somewhere about how you can turn off the VTC's all together until you can get the issue fixed. Could be another temporary solution, but I don't have the link.

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

thats on craigs site.
www.geocities.com/craigbrace/

i guess if ever in question on where something is, start at the stickies

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

I just changed my oil, shut them up for a bit. I'm really starting to wonder if mobil1 will make a difference

momaxima92

You can order them on-line from this web site:

http://rynoproducts.com/

I'll try anything to shut my VTCs up!!! Thanks for the post!!

momaxima92

Looks like you can get it a little cheaper here:

http://www.rspeed.net/miata/Subcat.asp?dept=10&cat=21

Brendan

you shouldn't run mobil 1 if you have run regular oil for a while you will get big leaks

RamJetMax

I think that is what a grounding kit does. I recall some people don't even notice a difference in power after installing a ground kit.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

that's probably because they weren't working in the first place

5 ltr. beater

Trust me, you can FEEL a loss in power when the VTC's are grounded. Down low you don't feel anything; but up top, you loose all your power and sometimes it feels as though the car is moving with the brakes on.
That's why I made a toggle switch on my center console. RPM's might get a little erratic once in a while; but nothing major.

tripleGmax

iTrader: (8)

grounding kit and grounding vtcs are not same thing. grounding kit beefs up ground points, grounding vtc turns it off.

GreenMaxVE

It sounds as if the MOA curred a noisy/sticky valve lifter or two. I don't see how it could have affected the VTC noise. I'm pretty sure that once the VTC's start knocking, there's no cure other than grounding or replacing. Just a theory, anyone want to comment?

92SE_Dave

Interestingly, I actually FELT a gain in low end power, and loss of high end power when I grounded my VTC solenoids. The noise went away which was my main concern, but also I think I actually prefer having more low end power.

About the switch, I have been thinking about doing that myself. Where do you run it through on the firewall ?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

Yea me too.... My car had no power below about 3500 rpm until i grounded my vtc's. I put a switch on my gear shifter so i can unground after 3500 rpm.

djx82

iTrader: (1)

don't bother rebuilding ur VTC unless it makes lot of noise so you can't handle it. My VTC was making noise for a year now... but still riding as is.. it's not gonna break.. don't worry.

bhunter

iTrader: (3)

Why do the VTC's stop making noise when the engine gets warmed up? If heat makes them better would the 180 thermostat make them better than the 170 'stat???

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

My VTC's will only make noise once the engine is warmed up, never when its cold unless they were grounded when I shut the engine off, then they will make noise for a second.

ChrisCheezer

mine tick a few min. after a cold start-up. Then stop about 2 mins. later.. but i never drive the car when its cold i always let it warm for 10 min.
- theres a shop that has this MOA stuff near me.. maybe ill pick up a can and see what happens.

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

IIRC, MrGone replaced his front and rear main seals not too long ago. Other than valve cover gaskets, where else would oil leak from?

If he switches to synthetic, he should just replace the filter after maybe a few hundred miles (+ add oil lost in the process) in order to remove any crud that might have gotten loose in the process. Otherwise, there should be no problems. If there are already leaks or it burns oil, then it's usually not a good idea to switch over, because synthetics will usually make these problems worse.


My VTCs clacked in my original engine really bad. It still ran well and I posted a 15.2 1/4 mile time with that engine at 149k. However, I have read where some people have had VTC failure that did not turn out good, ie -- needed a new engine.

Unfortunately, my JDM engine has some VTC ticking when it's cold. I think it should still go a long time before needing them replaced.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

only the front main. Rear is dry

really eh? I switched more than a few cars over to synthetic after they have racked up many miles (over 100k on dino). I will go as far to say you wont see a leak in doing so unless there is already a leak present.

white90se

iTrader: (1)

it actually is common to have seals leak after switching from regular motor oil to synthetic oil...the composition of the synthetic oil COULD cause the seals to shrink a little bit which COULD cause a leak...it doesnt always happen but there is a possibility...likewise with switching brake fluids from dot3 or dot4 to dot5

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Um modern synthetics do NOT cause seal shrinkage. Old myth

Dot 5 brake fluid is 100% silicone. HIGHLY NOT RECOMMENDED for a street car. Nor is it recommened to switch to a DOT 5 from Dot 4 or 3. Nor does switching from DOT 3 or 4 cause leaks either.

white90se

iTrader: (1)

i am not tryin to start a fight online cause that is pointless...nor do i have any personal experience with switching to synthetic...i was just stating what i had learned in my automotive class

but i suppose everything i learned and read about in my automotive class is false...we talked about this last semester in my auto class...my shop teacher who has over 20 years in the auto field and over 100 total certifications (ASE, GM, Ford, etc) has attested to this happening...and it is also stated in my book which is a NATEF certified book

and i know dot5 brake fluid is not recommended for street use...i was just making a comparison

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Synthetics have been formulated from the late 70s not to shrink seals. They MIGHT cause a small leak from dino oil to turn into a larger leak with synthetic. As the synthetics molecules are more uniform in size and viscosity. But in no way, would they cause a leak.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

http://www.americanmadeoil.com/10mythssynthetics.html

Myth #1: Synthetic motor oils damage seals
Untrue. It would be foolhardy for lubricant manufacturers to build a product that is incompatible with seals. The composition of seals presents problems that both petroleum oils and synthetics must overcome. Made from elastomers, seals are inherently difficult to standardize.

Ultimately it is the additive mix in oil that counts. Additives to control seal swell, shrinkage and hardening are required, whether it be a synthetic or petroleum product that is being produced.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

http://www.bestsyntheticoil.com/deal...il/seals.shtml

I would be a liar if I told you that switching over to synthetics could not possibly cause leaks around seals and gaskets. However, anyone who gives you the impression that this is the most likely outcome is either misinformed or lying themselves. Here is the whole story in easy to understand terms.

Back in the 70's and early 80's some synthetics were not blended correctly and caused engine oil leakage in some vehicles. Basically, the problem is that synthetic basestocks do not react the same way with seals and gaskets that petroleum oils do. PAO basestocks (the most common synthetic basestocks) tend to cause seal shrinkage. If the proper additives are not used, seals will shrink when using a PAO based oil, and leakage will occur.

Fortunately, oil manufacturers learned their lesson and reformulated their oil to contain the proper additive package which helps condition seals and gaskets to maintain their flexibility while also maintaining proper seal swell. In fact, the reformulation in most cases provides for better seal conditioning than most petroleum oils these days. Nevertheless, there is still a possibility of leakage if making the switch to synthetic - but only under certain conditions. Please allow me to elaborate a little bit.

Any of you who are considering a switch to synthetic oils probably know by now that petroleum oils do not necessarily keep your engine squeaky clean. Well, if you own an older vehicle (late 80's to very early 90's) it's possible that you have leaks in your engine already. Now, before you all string me up by my toe nails telling me there's never been a drop of oil that leaked from your engine, let me explain myself.

On older vehicles which have been lubricated with petroleum oils, seals and gaskets can begin to dry and crack. The reason you don't actually see leaks is because petroleum oils tend to burn off and leave sludge, grime and varnish on the inside of your engine. That's simply the nature of a petroleum oil's make-up. Now, conventional petroleum oils are not very discriminatory about where they leave those deposits. Therefore, some of the deposits end up around your seals and gaskets which actually plugs up the gaps which would have resulted in oil leaks.

"Well," you say, "I guess all of those synthetic oil nay-sayers were right. If petroleum oils keep my engine from leaking and synthetic oils might actually make it leak, I guess petroleum is the better oil."

Not even close. The fact is, it's a result of using petroleum oil instead of a high quality synthetic that resulted in dry and cracking seals & gaskets in the first place. As I mentioned earlier, synthetic oils now contain special additives which maintain proper seal swell and keep them flexible so that seals and gaskets don't dry and crack in the first place. So, for those people who use synthetic oils from the start (after a 3,000 to 5,000 mile break-in period), the problem never becomes an issue.

Of course, the next obvious question is, "If synthetics have those special additives, why might they cause leaks in an older engine? Why don't they correct the problem?"

Believe it or not, I've got an answer for that too. The "problem" is that there are also other additives that give a synthetic oil its detergency properties. In other words, there's other stuff in high quality synthetic oil which tends to clean out the sludge and deposits left behind by petroleum oils. Once these deposits are gone, the gaps around seals and gaskets become exposed and the oil might begin to leak in these areas.

However, there is good news. It's likely that the additives we discussed earlier will begin to lubricate the seals causing them to become more flexible and leading to seal swell which may plug those gaps over time. The only drawback is that there's no way of knowing how long it may take for this to occur or if the seals are already too far gone to be salvaged. If the problem doesn't correct itself, it is likely that the seals and gaskets would have to be replaced to prevent further oil leakage.

So, to wrap up. Petroleum oils can screw up your seals and gaskets and then fill the holes with gunk and deposits to cover their tracks. Synthetic oils come in and begin to clean up the place. Once it's clean, the holes might be exposed (if there were any) and the oil begins to leak. After a while (no way to know how long) the synthetic may be able to help the seals and gaskets regain their composure and stop the leaks

One very important point to keep in mind is that if 100 cars were put in front of you (all older vehicles lubricated with petroleum oil), the switch to synthetic would probably cause less than five or 10 of them to leak. The odds are definitely in your favor.

As is the case with most things, you tend to hear much more about the horror stories than you do about the success stories. I have spoken with numerous people who have made the switch successfully without ever having a leak. In fact, I personally have converted two older vehicles without even a hint of a problem.

Unfortunately, those who have had problems start screaming and yelling to everyone they know (with the best intentions) that synthetics will screw up your engine. Just take it with a grain of salt and you and your car will be fine.

NOTE: If you have a newer vehicle that has very few miles on it (say newer than 94 and fewer than 50,000 miles on it) and it begins to leak after switching from petroleum to synthetic oil, there may have been a manufacturer defect. Unless the manufacturer or dealer can prove that the synthetic oil caused the leakage, they are required, by law, to repair the vehicle under warranty (if you are still under warranty).

white90se

iTrader: (1)

points taken...but i personally am still skeptical...maybe i will switch...and see what the results are...seeing as how i will be rebuilding my engine next year at school...if it does end up leaking i can see if it was due to already damaged seals...and if i doesnt leak then i guess its not true