Cooling problem, 92 GXE
03-08-2007, 07:20 AM
#1
Cooling problem, 92 GXE
My brother has a 92 GXE. A few nights ago he did not make it back home because the car got hot and the upper radiator hose blew off and he lost all of his coolant. So my dad asked me to put a thermostat in the car. I did that and blead the coolant system. The car had heat again and ran fine for half an hour, so we thought the problem was fixed. Well we were wrong, my brother called again last night saying that the upper radiator hose blew off again. What in the world is causing this? One thing that I noticed is that when I was filling the coolant system back up, the heat started working again but the lower radiator hose never got warm even after running the car for half an hour. The temp gauge stayed in the middle between H and C the whole time. What could cause this? Thanks for any help.
03-08-2007, 07:43 AM
#2
First off, make sure the hose is tightly secured with the clamp (not too hard or you might crush the radiator inlet.) Also, you need to fill the coolant with the car at (or as close to as possible) a 45 degree angle. (Try to find a steep hill to park on.) After doing that, there is a coolant bleeder screw sitting on top of the engine. Open that while the car is running do get out any air bubbles remaining in the system. Good luck!
03-08-2007, 07:45 AM
#3
How did you bleed the air out?
The best way is to jack the front end up as high as possible [2-3ft],run the engine for 10-20 minutes while constantly topping off the radiator until it is full,make sure the car warms completely up through the process..
The best way is to jack the front end up as high as possible [2-3ft],run the engine for 10-20 minutes while constantly topping off the radiator until it is full,make sure the car warms completely up through the process..
03-08-2007, 08:23 AM
#4
I think I filled the coolant correctly....or at least according to the Haynes manual. The car was pointing up hill on ramps, so it was pretty close to a 45 degree angle. I opened the air bleeder that is right behind the IM. I left this open until coolant ran out of the bleeder, and then closed the bleeder. Once I did this I left the radiator cap off and cranked the car, the was squeezing the upper and lower radiator hoses trying to "burp" air out of the system. Once the heat started working again I put the raditor cap on and topped of the resivor. I thought I did it right but feel free to let me know if I missed something. Does it sound like something is clogged? Why would the lower radiator hose not get warm? Thanks for any help.
03-08-2007, 08:32 AM
#5
You probably have debris in your cooling system that is causing your thermostat to stick open.
Remove thermostat, replace housing, disconnect top radiator hose at the radiator, flush with garden hose through the radiator cap. Then drain, refill with NEW coolant.
Remove thermostat, replace housing, disconnect top radiator hose at the radiator, flush with garden hose through the radiator cap. Then drain, refill with NEW coolant.
03-08-2007, 08:37 AM
#6
Originally Posted by jimbo2006
You probably have debris in your cooling system that is causing your thermostat to stick open.
Remove thermostat, replace housing, disconnect top radiator hose at the radiator, flush with garden hose through the radiator cap. Then drain, refill with NEW coolant.
Remove thermostat, replace housing, disconnect top radiator hose at the radiator, flush with garden hose through the radiator cap. Then drain, refill with NEW coolant.
03-08-2007, 09:07 AM
#7
Is it getting hot thus blowing the upper hose off or is the upper hose blowing off thus getting the car hot?
I am sure you have checked this but I had that hose replaced and about a week later I overheated on the highway. I shut the car off and was actually able to coast all the way to a gas station right off the exit ramp (total luck that I was not stopped by a light or another car). When I opened the hood the hose was off because that piece that it connects to on the radiator itself was broken. Had to get a whole new radiator.
I am sure you have checked this but I had that hose replaced and about a week later I overheated on the highway. I shut the car off and was actually able to coast all the way to a gas station right off the exit ramp (total luck that I was not stopped by a light or another car). When I opened the hood the hose was off because that piece that it connects to on the radiator itself was broken. Had to get a whole new radiator.
03-08-2007, 10:09 AM
#8
I am not positive, since it is not my car and I have not had a chance to ask my brother. I just assumed that it was getting hot and blowing the hose off. Can any one tell me why the lower radiator hose is not getting warm?
Originally Posted by crabapple
Is it getting hot thus blowing the upper hose off or is the upper hose blowing off thus getting the car hot?
I am sure you have checked this but I had that hose replaced and about a week later I overheated on the highway. I shut the car off and was actually able to coast all the way to a gas station right off the exit ramp (total luck that I was not stopped by a light or another car). When I opened the hood the hose was off because that piece that it connects to on the radiator itself was broken. Had to get a whole new radiator.
I am sure you have checked this but I had that hose replaced and about a week later I overheated on the highway. I shut the car off and was actually able to coast all the way to a gas station right off the exit ramp (total luck that I was not stopped by a light or another car). When I opened the hood the hose was off because that piece that it connects to on the radiator itself was broken. Had to get a whole new radiator.
03-08-2007, 11:11 AM
#10
Originally Posted by cardana24
My brother has a 92 GXE. A few nights ago he did not make it back home because the car got hot and the upper radiator hose blew off and he lost all of his coolant. So my dad asked me to put a thermostat in the car. I did that and blead the coolant system. The car had heat again and ran fine for half an hour, so we thought the problem was fixed. Well we were wrong, my brother called again last night saying that the upper radiator hose blew off again. What in the world is causing this? One thing that I noticed is that when I was filling the coolant system back up, the heat started working again but the lower radiator hose never got warm even after running the car for half an hour. The temp gauge stayed in the middle between H and C the whole time. What could cause this? Thanks for any help.
Ok - lets try this again. When you say the hose blew off, did it burst or did it come off the clamps (old and new) ?? If it came off the clamps you have a clamping problem. How cold is it where you are. If its really cold you can expect the lower hose to stay warm to cool as the radiator is cooling off the coolant efficiently. Especially if the thermostat is stuck slightly open. When I had a stuck open thermo the lower hose never heated up.
03-08-2007, 11:19 AM
#11
Originally Posted by jimbo2006
Ok - lets try this again. When you say the hose blew off, did it burst or did it come off the clamps (old and new) ?? If it came off the clamps you have a clamping problem. How cold is it where you are. If its really cold you an expect the lower hose to say warm to cool as the radiator is cooling off the coolant efficiently. Especially if the thermostat is stuck slightly open. When I had a stuck open thermo the lower hose never heated up.
03-08-2007, 11:42 AM
#12
Who put the hose back on after it "blew" off?
When you refilled the coolant and put in the thermostat was the hose already back on?
If he put it back on and you have not checked that piece of the radiator that the hose clamps on to, I'd bet $100 - well, make that $25 - that it's broken and there's not a good connection between the hose and the radiator. The hose is coming off, the coolant is draining out and that's why it's overheating.
The guy who put in my radiator said they see that all the time when replacing radiator hoses on high mileage cars.
When you refilled the coolant and put in the thermostat was the hose already back on?
If he put it back on and you have not checked that piece of the radiator that the hose clamps on to, I'd bet $100 - well, make that $25 - that it's broken and there's not a good connection between the hose and the radiator. The hose is coming off, the coolant is draining out and that's why it's overheating.
The guy who put in my radiator said they see that all the time when replacing radiator hoses on high mileage cars.
03-08-2007, 12:30 PM
#13
My brother put it back on, I am making the assumption that he put it back on tight. You are making a good point. I just need to get some time to actually look at the car. My problem is that my brother is helpless when it comes to automotive stuff, and I work all day and he works nights.
Originally Posted by crabapple
Who put the hose back on after it "blew" off?
When you refilled the coolant and put in the thermostat was the hose already back on?
If he put it back on and you have not checked that piece of the radiator that the hose clamps on to, I'd bet $100 - well, make that $25 - that it's broken and there's not a good connection between the hose and the radiator. The hose is coming off, the coolant is draining out and that's why it's overheating.
The guy who put in my radiator said they see that all the time when replacing radiator hoses on high mileage cars.
When you refilled the coolant and put in the thermostat was the hose already back on?
If he put it back on and you have not checked that piece of the radiator that the hose clamps on to, I'd bet $100 - well, make that $25 - that it's broken and there's not a good connection between the hose and the radiator. The hose is coming off, the coolant is draining out and that's why it's overheating.
The guy who put in my radiator said they see that all the time when replacing radiator hoses on high mileage cars.
03-08-2007, 01:08 PM
#14
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Also, Run the car with the radiator cap off just to look for air bubbles in the coolant. Perhaps he has a head gasket problem. Be careful of the hot coolant and, if it does bubble, the hot coolant may burp out, so don't stand right over it.
I'm not talking here about gas pockets in the coolant system. I'm talking about a blown head gasket or such pressurizing the coolant system. These bubbles won't go away.
I'm not talking here about gas pockets in the coolant system. I'm talking about a blown head gasket or such pressurizing the coolant system. These bubbles won't go away.
03-08-2007, 06:30 PM
#16
urgh, I think I know the problem your having. How did you filled in your coolant? The right way is first, fill the radiator. Shut the cap. Fill the reservoir. Run the engine. After 5-10mins, the system will suck in the reservoir. If its emptied then hot air will build up in place of coolant and it will cause the hoses to implode. You could see this from happening as it the hoses contract. So what you need to do is pay attention, as soon as it sucked from the reservoir. Let it emptied it out first. Then keep refilling it until it longer emptying out the reservoir. This process takes about 30mins.
Don't do it on a ramp when your filling an empty system because if your on a ramp and that rad cap is opened then the system will not build up enough vacuum to distribute the coolant evenly. The only time that ramp is useful is for bleeding and topping but not for filling from an empty state.
Don't do it on a ramp when your filling an empty system because if your on a ramp and that rad cap is opened then the system will not build up enough vacuum to distribute the coolant evenly. The only time that ramp is useful is for bleeding and topping but not for filling from an empty state.
03-08-2007, 06:50 PM
#17
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The right way is first, fill the radiator. Shut the cap. Fill the reservoir. Run the engine. After 5-10mins, the system will suck in the reservoir. If its emptied then the hoses will implode. So what you need to do is pay attention, as soon as it sucked from the reservoir. Let it emptied it out first. Then keep refilling it until it longer emptying out the reservoir. This process takes about 30mins.
Don't do it on a ramp when your filling an empty system because if your on a ramp and that rad cap is opened then the system will not build up enough vacuum to distribute the coolant evenly. The only time that ramp is useful is for bleeding and topping but not for filling from an empty state.
Don't do it on a ramp when your filling an empty system because if your on a ramp and that rad cap is opened then the system will not build up enough vacuum to distribute the coolant evenly. The only time that ramp is useful is for bleeding and topping but not for filling from an empty state.
There is simply no way the cooling system will suck anything from the reservoir while following your recipe.
The reservoir is there to catch the overflow from the pressurized HOT cooling system due to expansion - hence its also known as a an expansion tank. When the cooling system eventually cools down after the engine is switched off, the coolant inside the engine contracts, and if your radiator cap is working the way its supposed to, will allow water to be sucked back into the cooling system from the expansion tank - ie keeping the cooling system always full of liquid.
If you have air in your cooling system because you have not followed the correct radiator filling and bleeding procedure (see earlier posts), there will be no or very little "sucking" action when the system cools down and hence no automatic replenishing from the expansion tank - cooling and contracting water is the thing causing the expansion tank's ability to keep the system full - you need a properly filled cooling system to start with else the expansion tank may as well not be there
03-08-2007, 07:01 PM
#18
LOL
The reservoir is for overflow but its also act as an emergency refill if the system ran empty. The way the system circulate coolant from the engine block to the radiator was by vacuum. You need that radiator cap closed so vacuum pressure could build up and if that cap was closed then the only way to keep refilling from an empty state is thru the reservoir. I've been doing this all the time and I had nothing but successes.
The reservoir is for overflow but its also act as an emergency refill if the system ran empty. The way the system circulate coolant from the engine block to the radiator was by vacuum. You need that radiator cap closed so vacuum pressure could build up and if that cap was closed then the only way to keep refilling from an empty state is thru the reservoir. I've been doing this all the time and I had nothing but successes.
03-08-2007, 07:13 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by bvtran
LOL
The reservoir is for overflow but its also act as an emergency refill if the system ran empty. The way the system circulate coolant from the engine block to the radiator was by vacuum. You need that radiator cap closed so vacuum pressure could build up and if that cap was closed then the only way to keep refilling from an empty state is thru the reservoir. I've been doing this all the time and I had nothing but successes.
The reservoir is for overflow but its also act as an emergency refill if the system ran empty. The way the system circulate coolant from the engine block to the radiator was by vacuum. You need that radiator cap closed so vacuum pressure could build up and if that cap was closed then the only way to keep refilling from an empty state is thru the reservoir. I've been doing this all the time and I had nothing but successes.
03-08-2007, 07:14 PM
#20
are you Wiking's evil twin brother? 
Read the whole thread, he obvious has tried your method and it didn't worked. He even went as far as changing the thermostat, bled it on a ramp, and nothing worked. What more can you say about your method? Quit being delusional.
Read the whole thread, he obvious has tried your method and it didn't worked. He even went as far as changing the thermostat, bled it on a ramp, and nothing worked. What more can you say about your method? Quit being delusional.
03-08-2007, 07:19 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by bvtran
are you Wiking's evil twin brother?
Fact remains - if you dont know what you are talking about, its often best to not start an argument.
03-08-2007, 07:33 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by bvtran
LOL 
am I starting an argument or you did? what's the matter, is it too cold outside? *sigh* that delusional feeling must be a result of frozen brain.
am I starting an argument or you did? what's the matter, is it too cold outside? *sigh* that delusional feeling must be a result of frozen brain.
Your understanding, explanations and motivations so far has absolutely no basis in reality - its really as simple as that.
Enjoy crapping on me and defending the right to post total garbage - its a privilege the Internet afford you.
03-08-2007, 07:52 PM
#24
Originally Posted by LvR
Your understanding, explanations and motivations so far has absolutely no basis in reality - its really as simple as that.
Ok, this is going to be last time I reply back to you. The only reason I viced my method was because I had this problem before. I have done this 3 times already so I know the solution to the problem he might be having. If you don't like what I post then chill out. Stop being a smart azz. You have no right to tell people what to post because any solution is better than none. And your certainly not helping either. Right now he's a in a thread lock and he needs a solution fast.
03-08-2007, 08:31 PM
#25
bvtran,you need to settle down dude...you seem to think you are some kind of maxima wizard here lately...umm you're not...LVR has more maxima/car knowledge in his left nut than you have in your whole body...so chill dude..
03-08-2007, 08:55 PM
#26
what drama in this thread! If only they made a pressurized cooling-system-filler, that did all the work for you, flawless every time. Like, something that could fill from the bottom to the top, instead of the top to the bottom.
The only cooling system junk i've come across is in a camry, where the expansion resevoir has a hose dropping down into the resevoir from the resevoir cap, instead of having a non-hosed cap, and a hose at the bottom of the tank. Well, his little diphose fell into the tank, and he didn't know it, and in conjunction with his cracked upper radiator hose, he was losing coolant, adding when it cooled down, pushing it into the expansion resevoir when he overheated, and never sucking it back in when it all cooled down. That's what he gets for neglecting his battery, which exploded and shot acid all over the place, and ate a hole in his radiator hose. If acid doesn't affect rubber, then ignore the preceding sentence.
The only cooling system junk i've come across is in a camry, where the expansion resevoir has a hose dropping down into the resevoir from the resevoir cap, instead of having a non-hosed cap, and a hose at the bottom of the tank. Well, his little diphose fell into the tank, and he didn't know it, and in conjunction with his cracked upper radiator hose, he was losing coolant, adding when it cooled down, pushing it into the expansion resevoir when he overheated, and never sucking it back in when it all cooled down. That's what he gets for neglecting his battery, which exploded and shot acid all over the place, and ate a hole in his radiator hose. If acid doesn't affect rubber, then ignore the preceding sentence.
03-08-2007, 09:48 PM
#27
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capedcadaver
I like the way Volkswagen designed their systems - the pressure cap sits on the expansion tank with a completely sealed radiator, and the expansion tank basically feeds both the radiator and the engine just before the water-pump ..................... that is in addition to a constant recirculation from the engine's hot side and the top of the radiator to the expansion tank too - all of that while the bottom of the expansion tank is higher than both the engine's cold feed and the top of the radiator, so there is no bleeding required - just keep the expansion tank level where it should be and you are set ............... I think that is about as close to optimum you can realistically get on a car
I like the way Volkswagen designed their systems - the pressure cap sits on the expansion tank with a completely sealed radiator, and the expansion tank basically feeds both the radiator and the engine just before the water-pump ..................... that is in addition to a constant recirculation from the engine's hot side and the top of the radiator to the expansion tank too - all of that while the bottom of the expansion tank is higher than both the engine's cold feed and the top of the radiator, so there is no bleeding required - just keep the expansion tank level where it should be and you are set ............... I think that is about as close to optimum you can realistically get on a car
03-09-2007, 05:31 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
bvtran,you need to settle down dude...you seem to think you are some kind of maxima wizard here lately...umm you're not...LVR has more maxima/car knowledge in his left nut than you have in your whole body...so chill dude..
My 240sx had an air pocket, and I over filled the over flow tank and tried to go home (2am in freezing chicago). Well it over heated.
The only time it will pull water into the radiator is when the car cools off. Not turns off but the cooling system gets down to ambient temperature.
If ramps don't work then jack up the front end until the rear bumper hits the ground....I didn't and I still have a air pocket or two.
~Alex
03-09-2007, 06:38 AM
#30
Originally Posted by MyGreenMax94
If you don't do it the way i explained,you will NOT get all the air out of the system..
I should have a chance to talk to my brother this weekend and look at the car some more. It seems to me though, if I did not bleed the cooling system correctly then the heat would not have worked and the temp would not have stabalized in the middle of H and C IMO.
03-09-2007, 06:55 AM
#31
Originally Posted by cardana24
I am pretty sure we are on the same page with that. I used ramps instead of a jack, but the same thing was accomplished.
I should have a chance to talk to my brother this weekend and look at the car some more. It seems to me though, if I did not bleed the cooling system correctly then the heat would not have worked and the temp would not have stabalized in the middle of H and C IMO.
I should have a chance to talk to my brother this weekend and look at the car some more. It seems to me though, if I did not bleed the cooling system correctly then the heat would not have worked and the temp would not have stabalized in the middle of H and C IMO.
It all depends on where the pockets of air are located in the system,i helped a local orger a few years ago with the same issue,he didn't have a jack that would raise the car high enough to get all the air out of the system,then i brought my larger jack to his house,jacked the car about 3ft in the air[jacked it up/put the car on stands/then put my jack on cinder blocks to add some more height] bled the system again..He had no more problems after that...
03-09-2007, 07:50 AM
#33
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seems to me though, if I did not bleed the cooling system correctly then the heat would not have worked and the temp would not have stabilized in the middle of C and H.
Liquid based cooling systems rely on the fact that the liquid in contact with the metal will remove the heat, and as the temp increase, the pressure on the liquid is increased in the confined space of the sealed cooling system, preventing the liquid from boiling (up to around 105C I would guess with a .9 bar rad-cap) - because once the liquid starts boiling, you have bubbles in contact with the metal surfaces iso liquid only, and we all know liquid (water and glycol in this case) is a much better heat transfer agent than air (bubbles)
With air in the system, you are effectively lowering the design boiling point (Temp) of the liquid in the cooling system because the air in the system can be easily compressed unlike the cooling liquid, and the liquid therefore reach boiling point at a lower temp, effectively instantly flashing the liquid to steam soon as it touches the overheating metal .......... causing even further temp rise in the metal because of even poorer heat removal etc etc etc in a very quick and viscous circle.
My guess is the Max's cooling system is luckily, by design, sized in such a way that it may be able to tolerate quite a lot of "abuse" - ie - it will keep cooling the motor even with some air pockets in the cooling system, until the liquid starts boiling with the temp still indicated being "normal", and the "heat" working because there is some hot liquid circulating after-all (I am assuming that there is only small air pockets in the system and its not half filled with air). At this point where the liquid starts boiling due to air pockets, a situation will quickly be reached where, if you continue to add heat (by driving), the metal surfaces are so hot that all the liquid starts flashing to steam soon as it gets in contact with it, and in a very sort time, you will have mostly steam in the cooling system, while the steam pressure is building at a very rapid rate approaching the cap's release pressure. If you are not quite expecting and intent on detecting this situation, you may very well miss the quick temp rise showing the impending disaster.
In your case the question must surely be why the radiator cap didn't relieve the pressure and allowed the radiator hose to be blown off - that is after-all exactly what part of its purpose is.
My guess would be a combination of possible air in the system and a bad rad cap (assuming the rad-hose was properly fitted to start with) .................. or then a real simple rad-cap failure to open at the correct pressure with even a properly filled cooling system .................... me? - I would definitely start by replacing the rad-cap
Sorry for all the long technical stuff but you did pose the question.
Edit: Fixed many spelling errors
03-10-2007, 06:40 PM
#34
Originally Posted by capedcadaver
If only they made a pressurized cooling-system-filler, that did all the work for you, flawless every time. Like, something that could fill from the bottom to the top, instead of the top to the bottom.
03-10-2007, 06:47 PM
#35
Originally Posted by internetautomar
They do make such a tool.
03-12-2007, 05:38 AM
#36
I had my dad put a new clamp on the upper hose and it seems like everything is fine. I guess I should have checked some of this stuff myself before I changed the T-stat, but my dad asked me if I could change the t-stat...so I did. After talking to my brother, he told me he was able to just stick the upper hose back on when it blew off, he did not have a screw driver or anything to tighten the clamp...he just pushed it back on. Hopefully that is all the problem was. Thanks for the suggestions everyone.
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