...................................from way earlier:

That is what you are interested in - not the fuel pressure once the car is running - agree with MyGreenMax94 - numbers are simply too close to spec (typical meter accuracy of 10% could easily explain those figures)

Get the fuel pressure meter plumbed into the lines and go to bed. In the mornings, witch the ignition on without actually starting the car - the fuel pump will run for a short time and then stop - you need around 40psi way before that pump stops else you have the situation I described

 

I've noticed the same problem on my max compared to the g/fs max. Hers fires up on first crank which is almost instant start up, mine cranks like twice before starting. All my hoses and been replaced and securely tightened. I HAVE ran out of gas many times (yes I wait to the last minute to get gas like an idiot) therefore overworking my FP.

Is it recommended to turn your key all the way right and let the "computer" load the "settings" and pressure up the tank before actually starting the car?

 

If the motors are exactly in the same state of tune and all other things being equal, then chances are you have the same "problem".

Running the pump dry cannot be good for the pump.

As for the "computer" and " settings" thing:

No such thing.

The ECU has a fixed logic to run though irrespective of what you are doing with the key. Do the same measurement I suggested before without the motor actually getting cranked/started and see if by the time the fp stops running (or actually a lot before that if the pump/lines/fpr are all in very good condition) you can see a pressure of about 40psi - the motor cannot/will not fire unless the fuel gets delivered through the injectors.Not again - no such thing - either required or possible or even desirable!.....

 

To recap. This is what ive done for this problem.
Changed fuel filter twice
Fixed all broken hose
Switched maf
Pressure test 34psi/46psi
Changed battery
changed pvc valve
Spark plugs changed twice
Changed wires
Changed Distributor cap and rotor
Changed alt but different situation

Now im thinking that last injector I changed stays open which makes me lose pressure.I have no external leaks.And I have one more extra injector that i could use but it has a small hair line crack on top the plastic piece could it be still used?

The problem with this situation is that no matter what I do I would have to wait till the next day to see a change.

 

did you do the residual pressure check that LvR recommended?

 

and then, if you see the pressure build due to this 'problem' wait for the pump to stop, then crank the engine, and see if it starts up the first time. Just to verify.

 

Well I did as stated above.Went staright to 40 psi.Try to start the car it took 2 cranks today. Once it started it stood at 36 psi.So by doing this test.It must be the fuel pump, correct.

 

wait.. was the pressure gauge installed prior to leaving it to sit all night? If you just depressurized, then installed the pressure gauge, and then start it up, it won't tell what you need to know. If you leave it on for several days, then you can watch the pressure even when the key is out of the ignition, and see what the pressure remains at when the car is off, after sitting overnight.

So, are you leaving the pressure gauge attached at all times?

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Based on that, I would have to say the pump and associated plumbing is actually all fine, and I wouldn't fiddle with that at all.

Time for serious definitions:

What exactly do you mean "it took 2 cranks"? ..........

2 revolutions of the engine? or

you having to let go of the key while the motor is not "starting", and on the second turn of the key the motor actually "starts"?

 

Well i'll turn the key the first time and it doesnt start. 2nd turn of key it wont start or sometimes it does start.and if it goes to the 3rd turn it'll start like a new car.When im doing this i look at my RPM"S they wanna go up but they dont.They'll go up to like 500 to 700 rpms.When it finally starts it goes over 1500 rpms and works its way down as car gets warm.

Could this be the starter?

Also do our cars have a fuel injector relay?If we do where is it? Reason I asked .I was looking up prices for relays and one of the parts site had 1 for a 89 max.

 

Starting to sound like bad/misrouted vacuum line(s) to me..

 

If it was a misrouted vacuum line wouldnt it effect my driving? Needle dont jump no hesitation nothing. Runs good. Just the morning starts. But i'll check the lines.

 

The line that comes out the fuel filter to the fuel rail.Which side those it goes too. To the fpr or the other line.

 

The main fuel line out of the top of the fuel filter goes to the "other" line...The return to tank line is on the fpr side...

 

So the line coming out the fuel filter goes to the line without the fpr.Not that then.Looked at all lines that I recently disconnected all looks good.

 

Few things to be clear about:

You need actual fuel arriving at the rails/injectors to create the 40psi pressure there. Since you have that already, the conclusion has to be that the pump is doing OK. Since the pump is doing OK, the conclusion has to be that the fuel pump relay (rather than the "fuel injector relay" you quoted) is OK.

There is no "fuel injector relay" - the ECU drives the injectors directly via electronics - relays would not be able to do the injector switching job properly because of "contact bounce" and unpredictable "switching delays".Well - if the starter is turning the motor at a seemingly "normal" speed then why would you suspect the starter? .................... or are you saying your charging issue in the other thread may have an influence here because you already know you battery is not fully charged in the mornings and you still have not sorted that?

IMO you have now proven the arrival of the fuel at the injectors at the correct pressure. The question now obviously has to be what else may be causing this "problem" of yours if we assume your charging system and battery is OK.

I am also going to assume that your ECU is in good condition

Well - you need a richer mixture than normal at a cold start. So how does the ECU know its cold outside and to increase the amount of injected fuel? - that happens via the engine temp sensor. Since the sensor is based on a NTC design we can simulate the engine being at its coldest by replacing the sensor with a fixed value resistor of around 5 KOhm - so that is one variable you can remove from the equation and see if it improves matters.

The IACV when malfunctioning/sticking is able to cause a leaning of the mixture if the MAF is struggling - so is you IACV clean? (you can also completely unplug the MAF and the motor should then still fire normally too - thats by design)

The TPS signals the ECU and can possibly influence the coldstart mixture quality if its not adjusted properly or if its out of spec - is yours ok?

Are your ignition wires running to the plugs/coil in good condition and not causing a weak ignition flame (that is super critical at cold-starts where evaporation/mixing of the fuel is suspect at best)

Are all your earth points and associated injector wiring in good condition? - don't just look at them! - actually go take off/loosen those and then clean them each/all individually - cold does strange things to funky tarnished/corroded connectors/earth tabs

 

damn dude thats crazy, when I said mine took 2-3 cranks at times start the car I meant as in two "revs" and not the one where you have to stop then turn the key again. Any good news?

 

IMO, with the age of our cars and the milage they have served, rings/barrels seal (swept volume) is bound to be less than optimal - valves will be less than optimal - lots of combustion chamber/intake/exhaust manifold carbon/rubbish - injectors no longer "atomizing" the injected fuel as good as they used to - all the wiring/connectors/sensors I mentioned before showing wear/drift - etc etc etc etc

Given all of that, I'd say you have a good performing VG there and wouldnt bother fiddling with it anymore if this is your biggest complaint.

 

Well I know all my charging system is ok battery all that good stuff. As for my post # 44. Those are all the things Ive done in the last couple of months. Im gonna switch my temp sensor. Got me thinking about that. The fuel injector connection where all cleaned. All that green stuff. Im always on top of my car. If i see something positive on the org or a member tells me to try something Ill do it. I have a pretty good vg getting 25 mpg. But it ticks me off knowing the car use to start in one crank now it doesnt.Im gonna check that temp sensor. and gonna try to check all the things Ive done in that post #44 Its gotta be something ive done wrong or a bad part .

Also whats funny today. I drove to work 1 hour. Car sat for 9 1/2 hours. started on first crank. When I get home car usually sits for a good 13 hours. And takes 2 to 3 cranks to start. Fuggin incredible.thats everyday since this probem started.

So if any ideas guys i'll take em. Thanks guys for time.

 

Have you RE checked your timing? I remember you once asked about how to do it properly...

 

On that score ................

Since the KS can and do affect timing (though, if all is well on the vehicle its affect will only be noticeable when using gaga fuel that causes knock), its quite conceivable that a funky KS can also be affected by temp and as a result cause a funky timing situation too - guess you could bypass the KS (see many threads on this topic) and see if that changes anything.

 

Checked my timing thats good. like 15/16

But this is what happened this morning. While trying to turn it on sounded like the starter knocking.One bang.The sound came from right in front of me. Something that hasn't happen before. Did it on my lunch break while a coworker started the car and I focused on the starter.Got a lite bang.He agreeded it sounds like the starter going bad.Also I ask this guy thats pretty good with cars.And he had said by the what I told him sounds like early signal of starter going.

 

Haven't given up yet. I've noticed when I finally turn on the car that my rpm's would go to like 1700 and drop to 12 to 1300 very quick. It use to stop at 1500 for a few but now it doesnt. Dont know if its because the hot weather. So I started playing with idle control valve and I noticed my throttle cables where pretty loose.So I tighten them up just a lil.So this morning it wanted to start right up on the first turn.It turned over on the second turn of the key.A quick one turn and it went to 1500 rpms like it use to. Just a lil more fine tuning. This morning start was way better then the last couple of weeks. Would like to get it like I had it before.

Any suggestions?

My idle is at 900 rpms . When put to drive goes to a lil over 700 rpm's. No Needle jumping or nuttin.nice and steady.

A perfect example how it sounds is like when you trying to start a car in the winter and it takes a couple of cranks..