BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

i plan on using 3 pwms. those are not the housings i will be using, i just had them laying around and they were already broken so i figured "might as well". i think i'm going to try to make my own pcb. i need a project right now anyway. thanks for the offer though.

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

what would youneed 3 for? u know you can use one for each side. then you only need 2. If you plan to do the signal lights since you can run those with no dimming theres no need for a 3rd pwm .

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

ah ha... good point! like i said i am new to this. that actually did cross my mind at one point but i guess it didn't stick.

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

not a problem man i dont mind helping anyone. do you have leds? i have 1400 hp superfluxes lol i have alot i know. let me know if you need any i am willing to sell some but not all i have 6 cars and only 2 have leds so far.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

i haven't got that far yet, right now i'm trying to get supplies together to make the boards. once i have a grasp on that i'll start researching the components. i'll definately keep you in mind though. what colors do you have? and on a related note, do you think i should use orange or white for the blinker? anybody feel free to answer that last one.

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

Im using the red orange suplerfluxes i have. i will have all reds in the rear when i am done.

d3v0

i would use red blinkers if i was u

d3v0

cause i put hyper white bulbs in my blinkers and my dad was driving my car and he got a sitation by a cop, so then i had to change them to the ungly yellow bulbs. then again i do live in fairfax county in virginia.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

hey if anybody wants a large pic of my templates with measurements send me your e-mail addy. this is for those of you who don't have a set to tear apart.

J-hop

I thought i would carry this over from HIDPLANET if your looking for something to draw up schematics, check out this free tool, i haven't had a chance to use it yet but from screen shots it looks pretty good.

http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Download.htm

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

Ok give me a good reason why not to? it is still legal to use red for a signal light.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

I used express PCB

BORQUA79

Red blinkers in the front are illegal in NY...

Only emergency vehicles can have red/blue in the front... Im thinking they have to be yellow, white is pushing it...I got pulled over for having red blinkers in the rear, but It was just an excuse to pull me over.

I kept cool not to mention the crown victorias and lincolns with red rear turn signals as well???

I hate dirty cops!

Kevlo911- You still have your order form, with the design? Maybe we can reorder from yours??? Just a suggestion...

d3v0

he wanted suggestion so i gave him one

d3v0

we're talking about tailights not front turnsignals :stfu:

made in china

iTrader: (7)

Yup, PWM control of the tails is the only way to go. I remember reading thru the old LED tail threads and they were having probs with LEDs not lighting up when the car's voltage was low, i.e engine not running.

All OEMs are PWM controlled. It is the only way to get reliable, stable and consistent performance from your LED assembly. I'm not saying non-PWM designs won't work, but they are not as refined per se.

I too have Agilent Super Flux (Piranha style) automotive spec red-orange LEDs. If anyone wants to buy some, LMK. I have 1000's. I'll get some pics of my lots of LEDs, seems some of ya'll may need some!

BTW, if someone could perfect the PCB layout, you could have sunstone make about 100 PCB's at a cost of about $8 a board. With components, a generic off the shelf PWM setup and LEDs you shouldn't need to spend more than $150. And those Taiwanese made ebay garbage Altezza style LED tails are junk, IMO.

Edit:
Pics of prototype PCB with PWM control using Agilent Super Flux Red-Orange DOT bin LEDs


Dimmed:

BORQUA79

Ok, kinda though it was obvious reds in the back would be legal??? maybe I was wrong??? But doesn't a lot of cars have red rear turn signals??? especially American made cars?

Todays project: Spot the red turn signals... get a count lets see how many are out there?

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

anybody have any suggestions on good smd leds? links?

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

If you are going to use those copper boards that azdave was talking about then start a thread on hidplanet and make sure you get ahold of azdave. Also the dimming can be done without pwm as i have yet to run one in any of my cars. pwm is the best but not the only. heres a site to get a cheap pwm from.

http://www.quickar.com/tkit.php?session=O66wTsFL

hectorc

iTrader: (4)

Red turning signals in the rear are perfectly legal. It is in the fron that they are illegal. No need to look for cars with red rears.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

i've checked out that and other pwms. when the time comes i'll just pick whichever one is the most pnp. both that one and azdave's require a little modification. if i do have these professionally produced i would like to have the pwm mouted on the back of one of the boards, but thats down the line a little. are you saying he's a good source of info on the leds as well?

side note: i just finished my first pcb design. it will be modified when i get the actual leds. i'm not sure how wide the spacing will be yet. teaser pic:

d3v0

what an artist

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

thanks, but i wasn't happy with those so i now have an updated version (top secret) that looks AWESOME! it will also disapate heat better than those would have. i started a new led tail thread that i will use to write-up my build.

Flava_24/7

iTrader: (46)

I wasnt aware LEDs generated much heat.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

it allows me to use higher amperage estimates resulting in brighter lights.

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

O yea they do. the lower power ones arent as bad as others but they do. leds dont get as warm as filament bulbs but they creat heat and heat kills leds.

f550maranello2

iTrader: (2)

its the resistors that create heat.. if u use 1/4 watt resistor with a 70 mA LED ITS GONNA GET HOT... LIKE 750 mA hot...

I have 280 LED's i left it for 24 hours just to test it out... i used 1/2 watt resistors (5 LEDS for each resistor ) and you could not feel crap...

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

what type of leds did you use? superflux? my first design is for 20mA leds. theres a combo of 1/4 and 1/2 half watt resistors because i have strands ranging from 1 led to 7. yours look great btw.

Cdg2125

iTrader: (7)

you should use superflux leds for the tails not the regular 5mm or 3mm.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

i'm considering both. i personally like the wide angle 20mA from what i've seen, but i'm sure most people would prefer the sf. one of the problems with the sf is i don't have room on my boards for the larger resistors. i actually had to modify my design a little to accomidate some of the 1/4 watt resistors.

J-hop

Just wondering has anyone here built their own pwm? im sort of starting to understand how they are built but if anyone had a schematic of their's id love to see it.

f550maranello2

iTrader: (2)

no u dont... ok so EVERYBODY HERE UNDERSTANDS!! ONLY use SuPERFLUX..
WHY? because regular LEDs arent bright enough during the day... its Dangerous..

i did that as well the first time.. i used regular "high intensity" LEDs yea until my buddy drove my car and i drove behind him... i almost rear ended my own car..

Now.. what u mean u dont have room for large resistors.. i have a strings of 5 with a (1) 27 ohm resistor.. and that resistor dissipates about 115 mW....
u dont need any other big resistor.. the reason i said that is because the dude that posted pics used 1 resistor per LED, which is gonna be stressed with like 700 mA even if he used 1 watt ones..

made in china

iTrader: (7)

I think my proto board used (1) 1/4w resistor per every 4 Super Flux LEDs. Nothing became warm. There is so much voltage drop across the 4 LEDs (10V) that the single resistor can be a very low value and easily maintain 70ma drive current (recommended for Super Flux LEDs). The only LEDs that should be driven so hard that they get hot are power leds. And those get heatsinks.

And I concur, don't use the 5mm ones. A few reasons:
The 5mm from eBay are cheap. Yes they are initially bright, but they have inconsistent brightness/color/voltage drops. etc. They are all made in China (ebay) and you get what you pay for.
5mm LEDs are not as easy to line up consistently on a PCB. The Super Flux LEDs have 4 legs and they will solder onto a PCB perfectly level, maintaining good appearance.
Even good 5mm LEDs should only be run at 20-30ma. Super Flux LEDs easily handle 70ma drive currents and are much brighter because they have larger reflectors and heavier components that dissipate heat better.
The super flux LEDs are honestly rated. The eBay ones use the brightest spot to measure MCDs, and they have spotty beams with artifacts. Super Flux LEDs use spherical measurement. Much more honest. Which brings me back to the ebay Made In China LEDs....ahem, "honesty" anyone?

f550maranello2

iTrader: (2)

fixed it for ya..

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

thanks for the info. i am going to redesign my boards for sf being that it is a safety issue. i had also noticed that the sf appeared to mount better.

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

Yea that dude<---- is me and i am not running a pwm that is the reason for one per led. when i redo them i am ging to with a pwm so i wont need as many resistors. Also there are really on 2 choices sf or smd. smd is what azdave used in his dsm retro they are bright and almost as wide as sf they arent as cheap but easier to mount on copper.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

if i read it right azdave used the smd in his prototype but is now using sf. i'm a little confused by your last sentence. i assume you're saying the sf are more expensive but easier to mount. i will be spending today redesigning all my boards to accomidate sf. do you still want to get rid of some? i need the red-orange and the red. also what do you guys reccomend for the white? i want to use a natural white and there aren't any white sf listed on the luminled website.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

something just crossed my mind. am i waisting my time designing a pcb if i'm just trying to make a prototype before i have professional boards made? this just occured to me when i was working on my design and was having trouble fitting everything because of the clearence i would need to solder the pins. the profeesional versions won't be surface mounted so there will be a ton of waisted space. actually, i just answered my own question but i'm interested to hear other opinions.

kzoosho

iTrader: (16)

U are right man he did use sf now. they are a lil more than smd but i they are no real white sf so anything you find is ok.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

alright i just spent 7 hrs designing 1 of the smaller boards. i packed 54 sf and 14 resistors into the 2/3 section of the turn siganl. i hope the rest don't take as long. i'm going to build the prototype using the cb with holes rather than etching a copper clad board. expresspcb and me are one now. i actually feel pretty dern smart for figuring all this stuff out. thanks for the help guys.

as for the white, if i can't find anything i'll try the ebay sf knockoffs unless anybody else has any suggestions.