Hey, VQMAN, after all we are going through with nissan, would it be worth getting a g35? Just a question. You know, i never really liked that car.. I dont think it looks all that good. Front is okay, but the back is too short. What other cars do you like?

 

I'm with you on the one!

 

we have a first in the org...

someone finally agreed with vqman!

-vq

 

I with you guys. I went to see the new G35 coupe. Beautiful car. The dealer sucked out loud though. He would not let me test drive. Told me he didn't have any cars available (Infiniti's web site said this dealer had 13). What do I have to do to ger a decent dealership experience?

 

Harte Infiniti in hartford that's where i've been test driving ours. he let us blow donuts in it, took one for like 2 hours(an auto) then let us drive a stick too(even though he wasn't supposed) so far it's the best experience i've ever had at any dealership.

 

hey Steve,

I was still wondering about specifics on your intake.
Do you have any links that talk about the pros and cons of your intake vs. a cold-air-induction?

-vq

 

Hey VQ you really know how to ***** up a thread, why don't you just email him..............

 

Can't sue for the missing 15HP if you've got a 2003. Nissan revised the Altima 3.5SE's horsepower to 245.

I'm sorry but I'm more convinced that Nissan underrated the Altima. It wouldn't surprise me if the Altima 3.5SE picked up a few more (rated) ponies before the fourth generation Altima is released.

 

...then that means that the Altima really has 255HP and is also dynoing at less than said HP?

...according to the average Maxima dyno numbers the % drivetrain losses do not equate to a crank HP of 255HP so most are in agreement that the Max is NOT at 255HP while the Alty is underrated. Heck for all we know, the Max and Alty are tied all the way through regardless the the number plays, which is why the are putting down the same numbers and that number "ain't" 255HP.

Nissan/Infiniti HP ratings seem all around suspect. First the Spec V was 180, then 175 when it showed up. The Q rated, what 340 but was out accelerated by the heavier and lower rated Lexus. The Alty is now up magically to 245HP from 240HP with NO assumed modification (or should we actually be assuming something). The Max was at 260 and show up with (on paper) 255HP. Stillen dyno day for the Z was dismall and very disappointing by some accounts. What the heck is going on here?

BTW all numbers for the afore mentioned vehicles were alleged ratings prior to their new model year releases. After release and adjusted HP ratings...the numbers are still, well...alleged.

 

Nissan "revised" the rating without explaination. They didn't say any modifications were done. A 2002 3.5SE and a 2003 3.5SE is indentically.

IMO, Nissan revised the 3.5SE's HP rating when they learned than the V6 Accord would be rated at 240HP.

I'm now more concerned with Nissan lying about HP ratings than the Maxima "missing" HP.

 

youre right, i took this off of nissans website..


"This V6's 245 horsepower is not only a boost over last year, it translates into more power than the 240-hp Accord V6 and the 192-hp Camry V6.*" maybe they did underrate the altima, and figured hey, why give this underrated figure that is equal with its competitor now, since the altima really did have more hp than the accord.. who knows what the right story is, maybe the altima was underrated a few, and the max was overrated a few

 

Why the hell cant you sue if you have a 2k3? its the same as a 2k2! right? i hope so. also, i was wondering how suing has anything to do with the Altima? and thats fine for them to underate a product, but to overate it buy 15HP is BS, and we all know it. Weather its 2k2 or 2k3 the window sticker said 255hp. Does anyone know if the Altima and Maxima engine is the same engine? Because if they do, that would be nice... because that would mean they BSed us from the begining. And it will be easier to sue thanks.

 

I haven't followed the thread very closely since the holiday season, but who the hell told you the 2k3's couldn't sue? They are in this just as much as the 2k2's.....they are basically the same exact car, except a year newer, so whoever told you that is full of ****, parden my french

 

The basis of the lawsuit is that the 2002 Maxima is missing 15HP, because dyno and track times show that it makes around the same amount of HP and gets around the same times as the 2002 Altima. The 15HP comes from the difference between the 255HP Maxima and the 240HP Altima. This lawsuit has everything to do with the Altima, since the missing 15HP is based on what Nissan rated the 3.5SE.

For 2003, Nissan revised the Altima's horsepower rating to 245HP. That would mean 2003 Maxima owners would sue Nissan over 10HP, the difference between 255HP and 245HP. This is why I said 2003 Maxima owners wouldn't be/couldn't be a part of the 15HP debate. Their debate is over 10HP.

Also, I believe that part numbers for the internals of both Maxima and Altima VQ35DE engines are the same. I can't remember where/when I saw that, butI do remember reading it either here or on Altimas.net.

 

You are highly Disillusioned..........the altima's power is relevant in this law suit, but your an idiot to think that it has more importance than it really does. This lawsuit is about the maxima, not altima, this class action includes about 150,000 cars, including 2003, so if you don't know the specifics, please, don't try and make educated guesses, unless your an automotive engineer, which for some reason i think your notj............and when it says the 15 h/p debate, the car is dynoing at 240 h/p, so that is where the 15 h/p comes from, it has nothing to do with the altima, besides the fact that it has the same engine parts as the altima, also if the maxima does end up getting 245, they still owe you guys 10 h/p, Jeeeze some posts just frustrate the hell out of me.....STEVE YOU WANNA HANDLE THIS ONE?

 

Well i was getting ready to post this but, you beat me to it johnvt1111

RyRy, you need to start all over at the beginning. The Altima only proves that Nissan is playing with the numbers. It's not the basis for the suit. 255hp is claimed for the 2k2 and 2k3 Max and that is what we want! Who cares if the Altima is rated at 245 this year. It has nothing, i repeat nothing to do with the 15hp missing. They are not saying * Max 255 minus Altima 240 = 15hp.* It has to all to do with dyno and claimed hp numbers minus drivetrain loss...

 

Look at the subject title of this thread. I don't know why it's so hard for you to realize why it talks about 15 missing horsepower. How hard is it for you to believe that the 15HP number comes from the difference of the claimed crank horsepower ratings of the 2002 Maxima and the 2002 Altima.

And who's to say all 2002 and 2003 Maximas are dyno'ing at 240HP at the crank. Has anyone pulled their motors out to find out or is everyone going by assumed drivetrain loss percentages?

The Altima does play an important role in this lawsuit. What if there was no 3.5SE and the Maxima still had a VQ35 motor rated at 255? It probably wouldn't be a big deal. What if Nissan rated the Altima's VQ at 250HP from the beginning? Would the lawsuit be over 5HP??

BTW, I've been helping Steve gather Altima 3.5SE dyno numbers from the beginning. You can check my earlier replies here and in the class action lawsuit thread over at Altimas.net. I would like this issue resolved just as much a Steve does.

 

MaxSE03, if you read my earlier posts, you'd see that I too believe that Nissan is playing with the numbers. I've said it before: IMO, Nissan revised the 3.5SE's HP rating up to 245HP when they learned than the V6 Accord would be rated at 240HP. There's no difference in the VQ's in the 2002 3.5SE and the 2003 3.5SE, so why the bump in horsepower?

And show me a crank dyno that says the Maxima is only making 240HP.

 

I'm glad you also believe Nissan is playing with the numbers. Why the horsepower bump.......you have got me? All i was trying to point out, was that the Altima has nothing to do with this suit. The 15 hp difference came form 2k2 and 2k3 Max dyno's.

Now to your last comment. No one has of yet pulled a 3.5 out of their Max to have a engine dyno done. I would like to see that myself. In a post way back, i even said the .org should take up some money to pay someone to have that done. I wouldn't mind sending in a $10-$15 dollar paypal. It would definitely answer some questions and let us know where we exactly stand.

 

ditto that. All you guys have to go on is maxima dynos versus altima dynos. Without the altima numbers you guys wouldn't even be in this lawsuit. Like Ry said, what if the altima came out rated at 255HP? How would you guys settle that? Anyone, ANYONE with crank HP numbers?

 

That is something that I'd chip in for.

 

wrong drivetrain loss as well.........i think i might request this link to be locked, as for ry ry 2k3's and 2k2's have been dynoing exactly the same to the h/p so, we are in the process of finding someone to pull their engine out for the automotive engin. to look at

 

Correct me if I'm wrong:

But were crank dyno's required for the following?

The Cobra SVT debacle?

The Mazda Miata fiasco?

or even the Hyundai situation?

I don't think so. I believe the many dynos among the respective enthusiasts were proving that the manufacturer crank ratings were not equating to the reasonably expected drivetrain losses on the wheel dynos. Optimism to corect what was wrong and persistence paid off.

We are no less entitled especially since (again if memory serves me correctly) the Miata and Hyundai ratings were over fewer HP numbers than are currently in question with the 02/03 Maximas.

 

I'm not saying that you guys don't have a case against Nissan, I'm with you in that I don't think the Maxima has 255HP as advertised, all I'm saying is that there wouldn't be a case at all if the Altima didn't come out rated at 240HP while putting down the same numbers on the dyno as the Max.

 

Sorry but I giggled..

Hyundai said that their horsepower was overstated because of the lack of established procedures to verify preliminary horsepower figures matched production horsepower numbers...


And like Linh, I do believe Maxima owners have a case with Nissan. And like Linh, I believe the 240HP number only came about because of the 2002 Altima 3.5SE.

 

I dont,t know about you guys but I found my 15hp yesterday on the dyno 226.6 hp 242.6 torque

 

Any one thought about an engine from a wrecking yard? There's got to be dozens available. It's not a perfect solution but I think a wrecker might let you borrow the thing for this purpose and no one has to go thru this with their own ride.

Just a wild a$$ thought.........

 

Yes but Einstein.....you have a Cai and a catback, that's your extra 15 h/p and some....as for Linh your wrong again, we'd still have a case, recalculate the dyno and add in the d/t loss, Thom, you are correct, but circumstances with nissan are different and we will most likely be forced to pull the engine out of the car due to how they test h/p over most other companies, that's about all all i can tell you

 

not sure, but I think you need a dyno capable of measuring power from the crank, the most common type out there measure from the wheels.

 

yeah, your right about that. I started to make that distinction but I figured most would have made that anyway as you have. After thinking about that part of the comment, I guess I should have saw the humor in that also.

Peace.

 

Thanks JV.

Heck maybe thats our problem right there! Maybe they should test LIKE most other companies do. Maybe then they could produce accurate ratings.

OT (a little): Anyone know what what G's are putting down? Hate to see that they didn't get their 260/260 rated power for the $30k+ they paid (and that I almost paid also).

Dah well...watching and waiting continues.

 

sorry to get this started back up after it seemed to be over....but I just saw RyRy's post...

jeeez RyRy...try looking at it from a diferent angle...for just a minute...cuz your angle is straight WRONG

Let me start by saying that you are right about the fact that the Altima's similar dyno "woke up" Maxima owners about the possibility that Nissan was lying about the 255 hp.

But the law suit isn't about 15 horsepower, it's about the 10, 10.5, 11, 11.5 12, 13, 14 or whatever amount of horsepower they lied to us about...it doesn't matter exactly how much they lied about, just that they lied. On both the 2002 and 2003 Maxima models.

both the 2002, and 2003 Maximas are identical in regards to drivetrain...I think the "Titanium Edition" Package is the only new option for 2k3...I have it on my 2003, and I'm almost certain it doesn't make my car any faster...

....regardless...

this lawsuit is about the Maxima missing some advertised horsepower,

not a subtraction of "Maxima bhp -minus- Altima bhp"

this is because we don't know the exact drivetrain loss of the two cars...

and because regardless of Nissan's claim for the Altima (240 or 245) the Maxima is still showing up on stickers at "255bhp"..
and that is not true.

The only way 2003 owners would not be included in this, is if the 2003 Altima and the 2003 Maxima were both rated at 245hp...

and the 2002 Altima was still 240hp and the 2002 Maxima was still 255hp.

That is not the situation we are in.

Then you go on...

For you to think that the title of the thread is an official document...I can't help you there...It's a generalization...we are missing approximately 15 horsepower, and that is what grabs peoples attention to the thread...it's not a MAGIC number that keeps 2k3 owners from getting in on the lawsuit.

I'm done with this...

-vq

 

I think Nissan is ripping us off big time. They did the same thing with the Sentra SE-R. They has to lower power ratings from 180hp to 175hp because customers were only making ~140fwhp.

To be honest with you all, a fwd drive car should only lose 6-9% to the wheels. I have always believed this. The fact that maximas produce ~200hp to the wheels shows around a 27.5% loss to the wheels from the engine hp of 255. Nissan is ripping us off BIGTIME!!!

For more info on Wheel HP losses check this URL:

http://www.sdsefi.com/techdyno.htm

Hope this sheds some light...

 

I have a question, what if nissan pulls an engine out of one of the owners cars and it does 250-256bhp @ flywheel? Also here is ford's test procedure for the 99 cobra pre-fix http://www.bonforums.com/mustang/cobra_99dynotest.htm. Notice how much the car needs to be prepped and how the data from the sensors must be in a specific range. Below are some other links showing how to get repeatable dyno tests done.
http://www.scca-enterprises.com/tech/tb0107-hp.html
http://kennedyp.iccom.com/pat/what_is_hp.htm

 

I'm not only wrong, but wrong TWICE? please quote anything that i've posted that IS wrong. My only point is that you guys have a case against Nissan, but that is ONLY because Altima owners were putting down the same numbers. If not for Altimas, you'd still be in the dark about the whole situation. Reread what I've posted before posting BS. Again, for the second time, can ANYONE post some crank HP numbers?? ANYONE??? You can cry d/t loss all you want, but what if the Altima simply has a more efficient tranny?? The BMW 330i has a BMW claimed 225HP, the WRX has a Subaru claimed 227HP, yet the 330 puts down ~200WHP while the WRX puts down ~161WHP, you don't see WRX owners crying do you?? One is AWD and has more d/t loss than the other is all Subaru has to say, all Nissan has to say is the Max has an older, less efficient d/t right?? What can you do to prove them wrong? Do YOU have any crank HP numbers? As Nismo pointed out, all you guys have to go on is a bunch of random dyno's done on non calibrated machines from all across the country at all sorts of conditions/temperatures/elevation/humidity. At the very LEAST you should have ONE crank HP figure done at somewhere NEAR Nissan specs.

 

you have posted basically the same thing 2 previous time, and 2 previous times, and more than one person each time has told you those are false, basically your full of it, the altimas numbers have no withstanding evidence backing the maxima's claims, the altima has no relevance in this case, except for the simple fact that both car have the same engine components, are case is with the dyno's, plane and simple, your really starting to be annoying, and seem to have no idea about the law or this class action, I KNOW THE SPECIFICS AND THE VERY DETAILED IMPLICATIONS OF EVERYTHING IN THIS CASE, AND WHAT YOU SAY IS PLAINLY STUPID!

 

If the Altima 3.5SE has nothing to do with this case, then why was Steve on Altimas.net looking for stock 3.5SE dyno numbers? I'm sorry but you are wrong in saying that the Altima has nothing to do with this case.

I'm pretty sure the angle is that Nissan overstated the HP for the Maxima. Dyno numbers back and drivetrain loss percentages for the Maxima are evidence. To back it up, dyno numbers and drivetrain losses on the V6 Altima further back up the claim. If auto Altimas and auto Maximas (don't they share the same 4-speed automatic transmission, part numbers would verify this) make the same amount of power and have the same amount of drivetrain loss, wouldn't that mean they make the same power? So if they make the same power, and Nissan rates the Altima at 240/245HP and the Maxima at 255, it's obvious that Nissan is lying.

 

I agree, the 2002 3.5SE dyno numbers woke up Maxima owners to the possibility that Nissan overstated it's horsepower. And I agree Nissan is not telling the truth with the power of the VQ35 in both the Altima and Maxima.

Never said the thread title was part of an official document. I truly believe this should be a "Make Nissan come clean with HP numbers" thread.

 

that would also be appropriate...

or

NISSAN IS LYING ABOUT HORSEPOWER thread...

or

NISSAN RIPPED US OFF!!

or

well, we could keep going on and on....but we know what it means...

but it looks like we're seeing 20/20 now...

-vq

 

This is gonna kill me in the long run but I have to say it. I think I'm gonna get rid of the Max. Seriously, I'm not liking the situation. I can't seem to have fun in my Max anymore! Just don't feel it anymore. Maybe if I got a cute little Mini? Or a fun loving bus fare card? I don't know guys, maybe it's me but doesn't it seem that this whole thread is killing our love for the VQ35??? 15hpz or not, we're still gonna stick intakes, y-pipes and all the fun loving, gas loving, parts into our cars to whoop those TL's and S4's azz! Stop with all the drama and just lay down some fat rubber to make yourselfs happy! I will, ain't no Mini or busfare card gonna make my fun go away. That's why I bought the car for, right? I don't about you guys, this is still a fun car to drive. We know where to find the parts, and if we talk to one another, we might just write about how we left that tinyturbo Subaru in the dust after he let his BOV sound a lil to happy! Just my thoughts, don't hate, just was wondering.