THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp thread
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Re: oh my god! he's shifting into 6th gear! ahah!
Originally posted by DjCZR
This is gonna kill me in the long run but I have to say it. I think I'm gonna get rid of the Max. Seriously, I'm not liking the situation. I can't seem to have fun in my Max anymore! Just don't feel it anymore. Maybe if I got a cute little Mini? Or a fun loving bus fare card? I don't know guys, maybe it's me but doesn't it seem that this whole thread is killing our love for the VQ35??? 15hpz or not, we're still gonna stick intakes, y-pipes and all the fun loving, gas loving, parts into our cars to whoop those TL's and S4's azz! Stop with all the drama and just lay down some fat rubber to make yourselfs happy! I will, ain't no Mini or busfare card gonna make my fun go away. That's why I bought the car for, right? I don't about you guys, this is still a fun car to drive. We know where to find the parts, and if we talk to one another, we might just write about how we left that tinyturbo Subaru in the dust after he let his BOV sound a lil to happy! Just my thoughts, don't hate, just was wondering.
This is gonna kill me in the long run but I have to say it. I think I'm gonna get rid of the Max. Seriously, I'm not liking the situation. I can't seem to have fun in my Max anymore! Just don't feel it anymore. Maybe if I got a cute little Mini? Or a fun loving bus fare card? I don't know guys, maybe it's me but doesn't it seem that this whole thread is killing our love for the VQ35??? 15hpz or not, we're still gonna stick intakes, y-pipes and all the fun loving, gas loving, parts into our cars to whoop those TL's and S4's azz! Stop with all the drama and just lay down some fat rubber to make yourselfs happy! I will, ain't no Mini or busfare card gonna make my fun go away. That's why I bought the car for, right? I don't about you guys, this is still a fun car to drive. We know where to find the parts, and if we talk to one another, we might just write about how we left that tinyturbo Subaru in the dust after he let his BOV sound a lil to happy! Just my thoughts, don't hate, just was wondering.
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Re: Re: oh my god! he's shifting into 6th gear! ahah!
Originally posted by VQMAN
i got my baby up to 142 last night...but imagine what I could have done with 15 more hp....
i got my baby up to 142 last night...but imagine what I could have done with 15 more hp....
ry ry, the reason steve was on there, was to get dyno's from the altima guys to prove that since you guys have the same engine components and are making the same h/p off dyno's, just to prove it alittle more, but either way, without their dyno's you'd still see the 240 hp from the max, meaning we'd still need the 15 h/p you paid for, the altima help is alittle more evidence, but from what i understand, it seems the altima is the only car that's dynoing what it should be from nissan, i hear the 350Z is dynoing lower than it should as well, and this all comes back to the way that nissan tests the h/p from the crank with the motor out of the car.....Steve if i'm wrong on assumptions let it be known, this thread though is starting to turn into a post ****** dream, of people who are assuming way to much, instead of knowing facts or asking questions
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,761
Re: Re: Re: Re: 2k3 15 hp question
Originally posted by RyRy
The basis of the lawsuit is that the 2002 Maxima is missing 15HP, because dyno and track times show that it makes around the same amount of HP and gets around the same times as the 2002 Altima. The 15HP comes from the difference between the 255HP Maxima and the 240HP Altima. This lawsuit has everything to do with the Altima, since the missing 15HP is based on what Nissan rated the 3.5SE.
For 2003, Nissan revised the Altima's horsepower rating to 245HP. That would mean 2003 Maxima owners would sue Nissan over 10HP, the difference between 255HP and 245HP. This is why I said 2003 Maxima owners wouldn't be/couldn't be a part of the 15HP debate. Their debate is over 10HP.
Also, I believe that part numbers for the internals of both Maxima and Altima VQ35DE engines are the same. I can't remember where/when I saw that, butI do remember reading it either here or on Altimas.net.
The basis of the lawsuit is that the 2002 Maxima is missing 15HP, because dyno and track times show that it makes around the same amount of HP and gets around the same times as the 2002 Altima. The 15HP comes from the difference between the 255HP Maxima and the 240HP Altima. This lawsuit has everything to do with the Altima, since the missing 15HP is based on what Nissan rated the 3.5SE.
For 2003, Nissan revised the Altima's horsepower rating to 245HP. That would mean 2003 Maxima owners would sue Nissan over 10HP, the difference between 255HP and 245HP. This is why I said 2003 Maxima owners wouldn't be/couldn't be a part of the 15HP debate. Their debate is over 10HP.
Also, I believe that part numbers for the internals of both Maxima and Altima VQ35DE engines are the same. I can't remember where/when I saw that, butI do remember reading it either here or on Altimas.net.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2k3 15 hp question
Originally posted by RyRy
Look at the subject title of this thread. I don't know why it's so hard for you to realize why it talks about 15 missing horsepower. How hard is it for you to believe that the 15HP number comes from the difference of the claimed crank horsepower ratings of the 2002 Maxima and the 2002 Altima.
And who's to say all 2002 and 2003 Maximas are dyno'ing at 240HP at the crank. Has anyone pulled their motors out to find out or is everyone going by assumed drivetrain loss percentages?
The Altima does play an important role in this lawsuit. What if there was no 3.5SE and the Maxima still had a VQ35 motor rated at 255? It probably wouldn't be a big deal. What if Nissan rated the Altima's VQ at 250HP from the beginning? Would the lawsuit be over 5HP??
BTW, I've been helping Steve gather Altima 3.5SE dyno numbers from the beginning. You can check my earlier replies here and in the class action lawsuit thread over at Altimas.net. I would like this issue resolved just as much a Steve does.
Look at the subject title of this thread. I don't know why it's so hard for you to realize why it talks about 15 missing horsepower. How hard is it for you to believe that the 15HP number comes from the difference of the claimed crank horsepower ratings of the 2002 Maxima and the 2002 Altima.
And who's to say all 2002 and 2003 Maximas are dyno'ing at 240HP at the crank. Has anyone pulled their motors out to find out or is everyone going by assumed drivetrain loss percentages?
The Altima does play an important role in this lawsuit. What if there was no 3.5SE and the Maxima still had a VQ35 motor rated at 255? It probably wouldn't be a big deal. What if Nissan rated the Altima's VQ at 250HP from the beginning? Would the lawsuit be over 5HP??
BTW, I've been helping Steve gather Altima 3.5SE dyno numbers from the beginning. You can check my earlier replies here and in the class action lawsuit thread over at Altimas.net. I would like this issue resolved just as much a Steve does.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,761
Originally posted by Linh
I'm not saying that you guys don't have a case against Nissan, I'm with you in that I don't think the Maxima has 255HP as advertised, all I'm saying is that there wouldn't be a case at all if the Altima didn't come out rated at 240HP while putting down the same numbers on the dyno as the Max.
I'm not saying that you guys don't have a case against Nissan, I'm with you in that I don't think the Maxima has 255HP as advertised, all I'm saying is that there wouldn't be a case at all if the Altima didn't come out rated at 240HP while putting down the same numbers on the dyno as the Max.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 314
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2k3 15 hp question
Originally posted by Oxidizer2k
So, what are you saying ry? im confused. Are you saying that the name should be changed from THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp thread to "THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp if you have a 2002 maxima and 10hp if you have a 2003 maxima because Nissan updated the altima from 240HP to 245hp thread"??? Or maybe you are asking steve out. The point is, you are bringing a lot of what ifs, which are good points, but come one, the real fact still is, we were screwed. Its awsome that you have been helping with the dyno and giving it to steve, but listen, as I recall, when most of us bought a maxima, 2k2 or 2k3, it said it was a 255hp engine. Now right there it should tell you forget about the altima. Even if they have the same engine, dont look at it, we are still owed 255HP. And whatever the thread name is, it could be "gangbang watchers of america" and it doesnt matter, we could still discuss maxima missing hp issues. And i am sure people like yourself who keep up will know and understand it. So its cool that you brought up the altima, but its only a reference to the track times (i guess). And if nissan underated the altima, does that give them a right to overrate the maxima? No, i want my da*n engine to be overrated too!!! (sorry for any spelling errors)
So, what are you saying ry? im confused. Are you saying that the name should be changed from THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp thread to "THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp if you have a 2002 maxima and 10hp if you have a 2003 maxima because Nissan updated the altima from 240HP to 245hp thread"??? Or maybe you are asking steve out. The point is, you are bringing a lot of what ifs, which are good points, but come one, the real fact still is, we were screwed. Its awsome that you have been helping with the dyno and giving it to steve, but listen, as I recall, when most of us bought a maxima, 2k2 or 2k3, it said it was a 255hp engine. Now right there it should tell you forget about the altima. Even if they have the same engine, dont look at it, we are still owed 255HP. And whatever the thread name is, it could be "gangbang watchers of america" and it doesnt matter, we could still discuss maxima missing hp issues. And i am sure people like yourself who keep up will know and understand it. So its cool that you brought up the altima, but its only a reference to the track times (i guess). And if nissan underated the altima, does that give them a right to overrate the maxima? No, i want my da*n engine to be overrated too!!! (sorry for any spelling errors)
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 314
Originally posted by johnvt1111
ry ry, the reason steve was on there, was to get dyno's from the altima guys to prove that since you guys have the same engine components and are making the same h/p off dyno's, just to prove it alittle more, but either way, without their dyno's you'd still see the 240 hp from the max, meaning we'd still need the 15 h/p you paid for, the altima help is alittle more evidence, but from what i understand, it seems the altima is the only car that's dynoing what it should be from nissan, i hear the 350Z is dynoing lower than it should as well, and this all comes back to the way that nissan tests the h/p from the crank with the motor out of the car.....Steve if i'm wrong on assumptions let it be known, this thread though is starting to turn into a post ****** dream, of people who are assuming way to much, instead of knowing facts or asking questions
ry ry, the reason steve was on there, was to get dyno's from the altima guys to prove that since you guys have the same engine components and are making the same h/p off dyno's, just to prove it alittle more, but either way, without their dyno's you'd still see the 240 hp from the max, meaning we'd still need the 15 h/p you paid for, the altima help is alittle more evidence, but from what i understand, it seems the altima is the only car that's dynoing what it should be from nissan, i hear the 350Z is dynoing lower than it should as well, and this all comes back to the way that nissan tests the h/p from the crank with the motor out of the car.....Steve if i'm wrong on assumptions let it be known, this thread though is starting to turn into a post ****** dream, of people who are assuming way to much, instead of knowing facts or asking questions
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 314
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2k3 15 hp question
Originally posted by Oxidizer2k
So, what are you saying ry? im confused. Are you saying that the name should be changed from THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp thread to "THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp if you have a 2002 maxima and 10hp if you have a 2003 maxima because Nissan updated the altima from 240HP to 245hp thread"??? Or maybe you are asking steve out. The point is, you are bringing a lot of what ifs, which are good points, but come one, the real fact still is, we were screwed. Its awsome that you have been helping with the dyno and giving it to steve, but listen, as I recall, when most of us bought a maxima, 2k2 or 2k3, it said it was a 255hp engine. Now right there it should tell you forget about the altima. Even if they have the same engine, dont look at it, we are still owed 255HP. And whatever the thread name is, it could be "gangbang watchers of america" and it doesnt matter, we could still discuss maxima missing hp issues. And i am sure people like yourself who keep up will know and understand it. So its cool that you brought up the altima, but its only a reference to the track times (i guess). And if nissan underated the altima, does that give them a right to overrate the maxima? No, i want my da*n engine to be overrated too!!! (sorry for any spelling errors)
So, what are you saying ry? im confused. Are you saying that the name should be changed from THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp thread to "THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp if you have a 2002 maxima and 10hp if you have a 2003 maxima because Nissan updated the altima from 240HP to 245hp thread"??? Or maybe you are asking steve out. The point is, you are bringing a lot of what ifs, which are good points, but come one, the real fact still is, we were screwed. Its awsome that you have been helping with the dyno and giving it to steve, but listen, as I recall, when most of us bought a maxima, 2k2 or 2k3, it said it was a 255hp engine. Now right there it should tell you forget about the altima. Even if they have the same engine, dont look at it, we are still owed 255HP. And whatever the thread name is, it could be "gangbang watchers of america" and it doesnt matter, we could still discuss maxima missing hp issues. And i am sure people like yourself who keep up will know and understand it. So its cool that you brought up the altima, but its only a reference to the track times (i guess). And if nissan underated the altima, does that give them a right to overrate the maxima? No, i want my da*n engine to be overrated too!!! (sorry for any spelling errors)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2k3 15 hp question
Originally posted by Oxidizer2k
So, what are you saying ry? im confused. Are you saying that the name should be changed from THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp thread to "THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp if you have a 2002 maxima and 10hp if you have a 2003 maxima because Nissan updated the altima from 240HP to 245hp thread"??? Or maybe you are asking steve out. The point is.....
So, what are you saying ry? im confused. Are you saying that the name should be changed from THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp thread to "THE NEW Let's sue nissan for our 15hp if you have a 2002 maxima and 10hp if you have a 2003 maxima because Nissan updated the altima from 240HP to 245hp thread"??? Or maybe you are asking steve out. The point is.....
-vq
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,761
VQman
Originally posted by VQMAN
I didn't at first, but I am really starting to like this Oxidizer2k guy...anyone that busts on a guy named Ry Ry is good w/me...not that my acceptance is something anyone should strive for, actually you should shun from it...but I loved the "red" bust...and couldn't stop laughing after reading the one I highligted in blue...
-vq
I didn't at first, but I am really starting to like this Oxidizer2k guy...anyone that busts on a guy named Ry Ry is good w/me...not that my acceptance is something anyone should strive for, actually you should shun from it...but I loved the "red" bust...and couldn't stop laughing after reading the one I highligted in blue...
-vq
Thanks VQman.
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Re: VQman
Originally posted by Oxidizer2k
...and we dont need you to come here and tell us different, because if you do, you will get blazed. And why the hell are you talking about subaru owners not crying? We arent crying? We are fighting. And dont compare WRX and BMWs and how fat your mamas thighs are here. This is MAXIMA.org. At least compare to other Nissans. And dont post nothing till you buy a Maxima. because if you had a Maxima, you would be with us, not against us. And i even doubt you have an Altima.... Peace everyone....
Thanks VQman.
...and we dont need you to come here and tell us different, because if you do, you will get blazed. And why the hell are you talking about subaru owners not crying? We arent crying? We are fighting. And dont compare WRX and BMWs and how fat your mamas thighs are here. This is MAXIMA.org. At least compare to other Nissans. And dont post nothing till you buy a Maxima. because if you had a Maxima, you would be with us, not against us. And i even doubt you have an Altima.... Peace everyone....
Thanks VQman.
our man johnvt111 seems to be fighting to get the "no-nuttins" out of here, what about the anti-lawsuit geeks?
john, you should probably make two lawsuit threads, one for "serious" inquiries, and one for flaming homers like me...but this is fun...and max.org is good for information and entertainment...right?
-vq
Re: Re: VQman
Originally posted by VQMAN
well said man, well said.
our man johnvt111 seems to be fighting to get the "no-nuttins" out of here, what about the anti-lawsuit geeks?
john, you should probably make two lawsuit threads, one for "serious" inquiries, and one for flaming homers like me...but this is fun...and max.org is good for information and entertainment...right?
-vq
well said man, well said.
our man johnvt111 seems to be fighting to get the "no-nuttins" out of here, what about the anti-lawsuit geeks?
john, you should probably make two lawsuit threads, one for "serious" inquiries, and one for flaming homers like me...but this is fun...and max.org is good for information and entertainment...right?
-vq
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 314
Re: Re: Re: VQman
Originally posted by Oxidizer2k
LOL, VQman, you had some good points yourself. Thanks for the support. But you know what VQMAN, we have some dumb-asses here is this thread and I am mad. Ry ry has points he trying to make, but he seems to be supporting a cause i dont think anyone knows what hes talking about. Stay to the facts ry, nissan needs to give us our HP or our money back simple as that....
LOL, VQman, you had some good points yourself. Thanks for the support. But you know what VQMAN, we have some dumb-asses here is this thread and I am mad. Ry ry has points he trying to make, but he seems to be supporting a cause i dont think anyone knows what hes talking about. Stay to the facts ry, nissan needs to give us our HP or our money back simple as that....
Originally posted by Oxidizer2k
This is MAXIMA.org. Atleast compare to other nissans. And dont post nothing till you buy a Maxima. because if you had a Maxima, you would be with us, not against us. And i even doubt you have a altima.... Peace everyone....
This is MAXIMA.org. Atleast compare to other nissans. And dont post nothing till you buy a Maxima. because if you had a Maxima, you would be with us, not against us. And i even doubt you have a altima.... Peace everyone....
Originally posted by johnvt1111
I have no problems with you, you've been pretty good lately, and i'm kind of surprised we actually agree on something....that this ry ry is a complete idiot, sorry ry ry, but you are, i think your the only one that agrees with yourself, oh and VQ, i shouldn't start the thread with the "no nothings" i think ry ry should
I have no problems with you, you've been pretty good lately, and i'm kind of surprised we actually agree on something....that this ry ry is a complete idiot, sorry ry ry, but you are, i think your the only one that agrees with yourself, oh and VQ, i shouldn't start the thread with the "no nothings" i think ry ry should
Originally posted by johnvt1111
the altima's power is relevant in this law suit, but your an idiot to think that it has more importance than it really does.
the altima's power is relevant in this law suit, but your an idiot to think that it has more importance than it really does.
Steve's original post on Altimas.net:
Originally posted by dmbmaxima88
I'm in the process of gathering information for a lawyer who is helping us over at maxima.org file a class action lawsuit against nissan for misrepresentation of horse power on the 2002-2003 nissan maximas. based upon industry standard horse power losses from the crank to the wheels and also comparing to stock altima dynoes that i've seen the horse power difference(15hp) was a lie to make the maxima look more desirable since it's their flag ship. What i need from you guys are stock dyno plots for both the standard and automatic altimas. i would prefer automatic ones due to the fact that they are the same transmission and this would give nissan one less excuse to use once this get's moving. i will GLADLY accept any stock V6 altima dyno however. if you have access to a fax machine you can fax the graph directly to Atty. John Havas.
the info he requested is as follows
-Dyno Graph
-Name
-Telephone #
-Dyno Date
-Purchase date
-Transmission Type
-Specify that the car is a V6 Altima
and once again his name is John Havas, please EMAIL ME at steve@frankencar.com for his fax number i'd rather not post it all over the place. if you don't have access to a fax machine please email me all the info and a link to a scanned pic of the dyno graph and i will take care of it for you.
I would like to thank you all in advance for your help and participation in this. Also if you don't have something positive to say PLEASE LEAVE. this issue has been talked about for a couple days over at the org and MANY MANY variables and numbers have been thrown around and they all point towards a 240hp engine is both vehicles. so once again i ask if you don't have something positive or constructive to say, go to www.off-topic.net and post ***** there.
once again i thank all you guys in advance for helping us out in any way you can.
-steve
I'm in the process of gathering information for a lawyer who is helping us over at maxima.org file a class action lawsuit against nissan for misrepresentation of horse power on the 2002-2003 nissan maximas. based upon industry standard horse power losses from the crank to the wheels and also comparing to stock altima dynoes that i've seen the horse power difference(15hp) was a lie to make the maxima look more desirable since it's their flag ship. What i need from you guys are stock dyno plots for both the standard and automatic altimas. i would prefer automatic ones due to the fact that they are the same transmission and this would give nissan one less excuse to use once this get's moving. i will GLADLY accept any stock V6 altima dyno however. if you have access to a fax machine you can fax the graph directly to Atty. John Havas.
the info he requested is as follows
-Dyno Graph
-Name
-Telephone #
-Dyno Date
-Purchase date
-Transmission Type
-Specify that the car is a V6 Altima
and once again his name is John Havas, please EMAIL ME at steve@frankencar.com for his fax number i'd rather not post it all over the place. if you don't have access to a fax machine please email me all the info and a link to a scanned pic of the dyno graph and i will take care of it for you.
I would like to thank you all in advance for your help and participation in this. Also if you don't have something positive to say PLEASE LEAVE. this issue has been talked about for a couple days over at the org and MANY MANY variables and numbers have been thrown around and they all point towards a 240hp engine is both vehicles. so once again i ask if you don't have something positive or constructive to say, go to www.off-topic.net and post ***** there.
once again i thank all you guys in advance for helping us out in any way you can.
-steve
johnvt1111 seems to think otherwise.
Originally posted by Oxidizer2k
also, i was wondering how suing has anything to do with the Altima? and thats fine for them to underate a product, but to overate it buy 15HP is BS, and we all know it. Weather its 2k2 or 2k3 the window sticker said 255hp. Does anyone know if the Altima and Maxima engine is the same engine? Because if they do, that would be nice... because that would mean they BSed us from the begining. And it will be easier to sue thanks.
also, i was wondering how suing has anything to do with the Altima? and thats fine for them to underate a product, but to overate it buy 15HP is BS, and we all know it. Weather its 2k2 or 2k3 the window sticker said 255hp. Does anyone know if the Altima and Maxima engine is the same engine? Because if they do, that would be nice... because that would mean they BSed us from the begining. And it will be easier to sue thanks.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: VQman
Originally posted by RyRy
I'm looking at it from a different angle, from the outside looking in. Nothing wrong with that. It's obvious that Nissan is lying.
You'll probably find it it hard to believe, but I'm on your side.
I went back and re-read Steve's post on Altimas.net back when this first started.
Steve's original post on Altimas.net:
The point I'm trying to make is that Altima dynos are an important part of the lawsuit.
johnvt1111 seems to think otherwise.
I'm looking at it from a different angle, from the outside looking in. Nothing wrong with that. It's obvious that Nissan is lying.
You'll probably find it it hard to believe, but I'm on your side.
I went back and re-read Steve's post on Altimas.net back when this first started.
Steve's original post on Altimas.net:
The point I'm trying to make is that Altima dynos are an important part of the lawsuit.
johnvt1111 seems to think otherwise.
so did steve check the "yes" box?
-vq
Re: Re: Re: Re: VQman
Originally posted by RyRy
I'm looking at it from a different angle, from the outside looking in. Nothing wrong with that. It's obvious that Nissan is lying.
You'll probably find it it hard to believe, but I'm on your side.
I went back and re-read Steve's post on Altimas.net back when this first started.
Steve's original post on Altimas.net:
The point I'm trying to make is that Altima dynos are an important part of the lawsuit.
johnvt1111 seems to think otherwise.
I'm looking at it from a different angle, from the outside looking in. Nothing wrong with that. It's obvious that Nissan is lying.
You'll probably find it it hard to believe, but I'm on your side.
I went back and re-read Steve's post on Altimas.net back when this first started.
Steve's original post on Altimas.net:
The point I'm trying to make is that Altima dynos are an important part of the lawsuit.
johnvt1111 seems to think otherwise.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 60
Re: Re: Re: Re: VQman
Okay gentlemen let me step in and attempt to get us beyond this point.
But first: When I get email updates to this thread I look forward to general good information on how we as a community of enthusiast are doing or progressing along with this issue. That of course includes a myriad of opinions, debates, entertainment and the serious updates.
With a little common sense, objectivity, and the act of giving preference to others and agreeing to disagree we should be able to move beyond this very circular discussion about the Altima play.
Objectively I could say Steve's (since you quoted him from his Altima post) solicitation was "afterward", "in addition", "supplemental to" as you will notice the conjunction "AND" he used after stating what he had already put into action: Namely the class action lawsuit.
Point is: see it how you want you, others will disagree. This is a good thing.
I would say that the Altima is UNIQUELY important versus VITALLY important. Why? Because how many many manufacturers are using the same EXACT engine across the broadest range of vehicles. Making such an easy "test" and "control point" for the investigation. We are in a unique position to prove lying because we have another car with the EXACT same engine but with a different rating doing the same numbers. Its more of a "gotcha" Nissan so fess and explain instead of a "gotta have this" for Nissan to fess up and explain.
Singly, this is a case with its own merits. To not address the similarities between the two cars would be to ignore the obvious and not take advantage of, again, the UNIQUE position we are in and to do about as good a comparison as one can to build a case. These two cars have identical power plants unlike the Z with has the same engine but some differing internal parts like headers, etc. We could have done a comparison agains the TLS and just calculated the differential of 5HP between the two to get a ball park figure but still, if reasonal measure can be made for documenting less than Manufacturer rated HP consistently across a high number of the same car. Potential case granted. No other cars mandatory. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if the G35 sedan was putting down the exact same numbers as the Max and Alty as well percentage wise (since it is rwd).
Finally, we have to move beyond this. You are continually restating "You're case has its merit solely or largely because of the Altima but I agree that you have a case". Quotations are for emphasis and I'm also paraphrasing not direct quoting.
Essentially there are several factors impacting the case and while I've not explained the Altima factor in its entirety, lets agree that it has a useful role in assisting the case along. Trying to get validation for the other points you are making about the Alty from this thread is only generating a distraction and is upsetting some members. Please defer to those who have been spearheading this effort and please post objectively what you feel. Not just feel good posts. You are not required to be a manpleaser here but, c'mon, you now when its time to move on. Forget about having the last word my man. Lets keep good information, debates, whatever going and let go of contests that have run the course. After we've exhausted full opinion on something lets move on to something else. We can at least reserve the right the resurrect a subject at a later date if we so choose, right?
I do apologize for the somewhat long post. Lets keep the good info flowing people! 
Peace
But first: When I get email updates to this thread I look forward to general good information on how we as a community of enthusiast are doing or progressing along with this issue. That of course includes a myriad of opinions, debates, entertainment and the serious updates.
With a little common sense, objectivity, and the act of giving preference to others and agreeing to disagree we should be able to move beyond this very circular discussion about the Altima play.
Objectively I could say Steve's (since you quoted him from his Altima post) solicitation was "afterward", "in addition", "supplemental to" as you will notice the conjunction "AND" he used after stating what he had already put into action: Namely the class action lawsuit.
Point is: see it how you want you, others will disagree. This is a good thing.
I would say that the Altima is UNIQUELY important versus VITALLY important. Why? Because how many many manufacturers are using the same EXACT engine across the broadest range of vehicles. Making such an easy "test" and "control point" for the investigation. We are in a unique position to prove lying because we have another car with the EXACT same engine but with a different rating doing the same numbers. Its more of a "gotcha" Nissan so fess and explain instead of a "gotta have this" for Nissan to fess up and explain.
Singly, this is a case with its own merits. To not address the similarities between the two cars would be to ignore the obvious and not take advantage of, again, the UNIQUE position we are in and to do about as good a comparison as one can to build a case. These two cars have identical power plants unlike the Z with has the same engine but some differing internal parts like headers, etc. We could have done a comparison agains the TLS and just calculated the differential of 5HP between the two to get a ball park figure but still, if reasonal measure can be made for documenting less than Manufacturer rated HP consistently across a high number of the same car. Potential case granted. No other cars mandatory. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if the G35 sedan was putting down the exact same numbers as the Max and Alty as well percentage wise (since it is rwd).
Finally, we have to move beyond this. You are continually restating "You're case has its merit solely or largely because of the Altima but I agree that you have a case". Quotations are for emphasis and I'm also paraphrasing not direct quoting.
Essentially there are several factors impacting the case and while I've not explained the Altima factor in its entirety, lets agree that it has a useful role in assisting the case along. Trying to get validation for the other points you are making about the Alty from this thread is only generating a distraction and is upsetting some members. Please defer to those who have been spearheading this effort and please post objectively what you feel. Not just feel good posts. You are not required to be a manpleaser here but, c'mon, you now when its time to move on. Forget about having the last word my man. Lets keep good information, debates, whatever going and let go of contests that have run the course. After we've exhausted full opinion on something lets move on to something else. We can at least reserve the right the resurrect a subject at a later date if we so choose, right?
I do apologize for the somewhat long post. Lets keep the good info flowing people! Peace
Originally posted by RyRy
I'm looking at it from a different angle, from the outside looking in. Nothing wrong with that. It's obvious that Nissan is lying.
You'll probably find it it hard to believe, but I'm on your side.
I went back and re-read Steve's post on Altimas.net back when this first started.
Steve's original post on Altimas.net:
The point I'm trying to make is that Altima dynos are an important part of the lawsuit.
johnvt1111 seems to think otherwise.
I'm looking at it from a different angle, from the outside looking in. Nothing wrong with that. It's obvious that Nissan is lying.
You'll probably find it it hard to believe, but I'm on your side.
I went back and re-read Steve's post on Altimas.net back when this first started.
Steve's original post on Altimas.net:
The point I'm trying to make is that Altima dynos are an important part of the lawsuit.
johnvt1111 seems to think otherwise.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,761
johnvt1111
Originally posted by johnvt1111
well i also think how your an absolute fool, and your not looking at anything from a different angle, and you are ridding this supid idea that without the altima WE not you wouldn't have a case...........I AM DONE POSTING ON THIS TREAD,
well i also think how your an absolute fool, and your not looking at anything from a different angle, and you are ridding this supid idea that without the altima WE not you wouldn't have a case...........I AM DONE POSTING ON THIS TREAD,
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: johnvt1111
Originally posted by Oxidizer2k
Dont leave John.......
Dont leave John.......
he's not leaving the org...just this thread...
I think he could use the break...but he'll be around...
buck up lil camper...
everything is gonna be allright...
-vq
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,761
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: VQman
Originally posted by ThomBlaze2k2SE
Okay gentlemen let me step in and attempt to get us beyond this point.
But first: When I get email updates to this thread I look forward to general good information on how we as a community of enthusiast are doing or progressing along with this issue. That of course includes a myriad of opinions, debates, entertainment and the serious updates.
With a little common sense, objectivity, and the act of giving preference to others and agreeing to disagree we should be able to move beyond this very circular discussion about the Altima play.
Objectively I could say Steve's (since you quoted him from his Altima post) solicitation was "afterward", "in addition", "supplemental to" as you will notice the conjunction "AND" he used after stating what he had already put into action: Namely the class action lawsuit.
Point is: see it how you want you, others will disagree. This is a good thing.
I would say that the Altima is UNIQUELY important versus VITALLY important. Why? Because how many many manufacturers are using the same EXACT engine across the broadest range of vehicles. Making such an easy "test" and "control point" for the investigation. We are in a unique position to prove lying because we have another car with the EXACT same engine but with a different rating doing the same numbers. Its more of a "gotcha" Nissan so fess and explain instead of a "gotta have this" for Nissan to fess up and explain.
Singly, this is a case with its own merits. To not address the similarities between the two cars would be to ignore the obvious and not take advantage of, again, the UNIQUE position we are in and to do about as good a comparison as one can to build a case. These two cars have identical power plants unlike the Z with has the same engine but some differing internal parts like headers, etc. We could have done a comparison agains the TLS and just calculated the differential of 5HP between the two to get a ball park figure but still, if reasonal measure can be made for documenting less than Manufacturer rated HP consistently across a high number of the same car. Potential case granted. No other cars mandatory. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if the G35 sedan was putting down the exact same numbers as the Max and Alty as well percentage wise (since it is rwd).
Finally, we have to move beyond this. You are continually restating "You're case has its merit solely or largely because of the Altima but I agree that you have a case". Quotations are for emphasis and I'm also paraphrasing not direct quoting.
Essentially there are several factors impacting the case and while I've not explained the Altima factor in its entirety, lets agree that it has a useful role in assisting the case along. Trying to get validation for the other points you are making about the Alty from this thread is only generating a distraction and is upsetting some members. Please defer to those who have been spearheading this effort and please post objectively what you feel. Not just feel good posts. You are not required to be a manpleaser here but, c'mon, you now when its time to move on. Forget about having the last word my man. Lets keep good information, debates, whatever going and let go of contests that have run the course. After we've exhausted full opinion on something lets move on to something else. We can at least reserve the right the resurrect a subject at a later date if we so choose, right? I do apologize for the somewhat long post. Lets keep the good info flowing people!
Peace
Okay gentlemen let me step in and attempt to get us beyond this point.
But first: When I get email updates to this thread I look forward to general good information on how we as a community of enthusiast are doing or progressing along with this issue. That of course includes a myriad of opinions, debates, entertainment and the serious updates.
With a little common sense, objectivity, and the act of giving preference to others and agreeing to disagree we should be able to move beyond this very circular discussion about the Altima play.
Objectively I could say Steve's (since you quoted him from his Altima post) solicitation was "afterward", "in addition", "supplemental to" as you will notice the conjunction "AND" he used after stating what he had already put into action: Namely the class action lawsuit.
Point is: see it how you want you, others will disagree. This is a good thing.
I would say that the Altima is UNIQUELY important versus VITALLY important. Why? Because how many many manufacturers are using the same EXACT engine across the broadest range of vehicles. Making such an easy "test" and "control point" for the investigation. We are in a unique position to prove lying because we have another car with the EXACT same engine but with a different rating doing the same numbers. Its more of a "gotcha" Nissan so fess and explain instead of a "gotta have this" for Nissan to fess up and explain.
Singly, this is a case with its own merits. To not address the similarities between the two cars would be to ignore the obvious and not take advantage of, again, the UNIQUE position we are in and to do about as good a comparison as one can to build a case. These two cars have identical power plants unlike the Z with has the same engine but some differing internal parts like headers, etc. We could have done a comparison agains the TLS and just calculated the differential of 5HP between the two to get a ball park figure but still, if reasonal measure can be made for documenting less than Manufacturer rated HP consistently across a high number of the same car. Potential case granted. No other cars mandatory. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if the G35 sedan was putting down the exact same numbers as the Max and Alty as well percentage wise (since it is rwd).
Finally, we have to move beyond this. You are continually restating "You're case has its merit solely or largely because of the Altima but I agree that you have a case". Quotations are for emphasis and I'm also paraphrasing not direct quoting.
Essentially there are several factors impacting the case and while I've not explained the Altima factor in its entirety, lets agree that it has a useful role in assisting the case along. Trying to get validation for the other points you are making about the Alty from this thread is only generating a distraction and is upsetting some members. Please defer to those who have been spearheading this effort and please post objectively what you feel. Not just feel good posts. You are not required to be a manpleaser here but, c'mon, you now when its time to move on. Forget about having the last word my man. Lets keep good information, debates, whatever going and let go of contests that have run the course. After we've exhausted full opinion on something lets move on to something else. We can at least reserve the right the resurrect a subject at a later date if we so choose, right?
I do apologize for the somewhat long post. Lets keep the good info flowing people! Peace
I'm not leaving the org, but im the closest ear to the Lawyer, and reading the things being said can be so irrelevant and frustrating, this is not a small case, this is not like the cobra case, where it was just the cobra mustang owners involved, or the other cars......the WHOLE MAXIMA COMMUNITY from 2k2-2k3 is involved, that means approximately 150,000-200,000 cars/owners involved.......if you don't know, don't post it, if you want to know ask!
by the way Thom, seems like either someone was an english major or had a couple law classes.......i agree with SOME of your points, well written though....A for presentation and effort
by the way Thom, seems like either someone was an english major or had a couple law classes.......i agree with SOME of your points, well written though....A for presentation and effort
Senior Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 314
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: VQman
Originally posted by ThomBlaze2k2SE
Objectively I could say Steve's (since you quoted him from his Altima post) solicitation was "afterward", "in addition", "supplemental to" as you will notice the conjunction "AND" he used after stating what he had already put into action: Namely the class action lawsuit.
Point is: see it how you want you, others will disagree. This is a good thing.
I would say that the Altima is UNIQUELY important versus VITALLY important. Why? Because how many many manufacturers are using the same EXACT engine across the broadest range of vehicles. Making such an easy "test" and "control point" for the investigation. We are in a unique position to prove lying because we have another car with the EXACT same engine but with a different rating doing the same numbers. Its more of a "gotcha" Nissan so fess and explain instead of a "gotta have this" for Nissan to fess up and explain.
Objectively I could say Steve's (since you quoted him from his Altima post) solicitation was "afterward", "in addition", "supplemental to" as you will notice the conjunction "AND" he used after stating what he had already put into action: Namely the class action lawsuit.
Point is: see it how you want you, others will disagree. This is a good thing.
I would say that the Altima is UNIQUELY important versus VITALLY important. Why? Because how many many manufacturers are using the same EXACT engine across the broadest range of vehicles. Making such an easy "test" and "control point" for the investigation. We are in a unique position to prove lying because we have another car with the EXACT same engine but with a different rating doing the same numbers. Its more of a "gotcha" Nissan so fess and explain instead of a "gotta have this" for Nissan to fess up and explain.
Originally posted by ThomBlaze2k2SE
Finally, we have to move beyond this. You are continually restating "You're case has its merit solely or largely because of the Altima but I agree that you have a case". Quotations are for emphasis and I'm also paraphrasing not direct quoting.
Essentially there are several factors impacting the case and while I've not explained the Altima factor in its entirety, lets agree that it has a useful role in assisting the case along. Trying to get validation for the other points you are making about the Alty from this thread is only generating a distraction and is upsetting some members. Please defer to those who have been spearheading this effort and please post objectively what you feel. Not just feel good posts. You are not required to be a manpleaser here but, c'mon, you now when its time to move on. Forget about having the last word my man. Lets keep good information, debates, whatever going and let go of contests that have run the course. After we've exhausted full opinion on something lets move on to something else. We can at least reserve the right the resurrect a subject at a later date if we so choose, right? I do apologize for the somewhat long post. Lets keep the good info flowing people!
Finally, we have to move beyond this. You are continually restating "You're case has its merit solely or largely because of the Altima but I agree that you have a case". Quotations are for emphasis and I'm also paraphrasing not direct quoting.
Essentially there are several factors impacting the case and while I've not explained the Altima factor in its entirety, lets agree that it has a useful role in assisting the case along. Trying to get validation for the other points you are making about the Alty from this thread is only generating a distraction and is upsetting some members. Please defer to those who have been spearheading this effort and please post objectively what you feel. Not just feel good posts. You are not required to be a manpleaser here but, c'mon, you now when its time to move on. Forget about having the last word my man. Lets keep good information, debates, whatever going and let go of contests that have run the course. After we've exhausted full opinion on something lets move on to something else. We can at least reserve the right the resurrect a subject at a later date if we so choose, right? I do apologize for the somewhat long post. Lets keep the good info flowing people!
Originally posted by johnvt1111
well i also think how your an absolute fool, and your not looking at anything from a different angle, and you are ridding this supid idea that without the altima WE not you wouldn't have a case...........I AM DONE POSTING ON THIS TREAD,
well i also think how your an absolute fool, and your not looking at anything from a different angle, and you are ridding this supid idea that without the altima WE not you wouldn't have a case...........I AM DONE POSTING ON THIS TREAD,
But it also seems that most of those who recently replied are against this lawsuit having anything to do with the V6 Altima. I'm not saying that this case is based soley on Altima dyno numbers. I'm not saying Altima dynos are the most important part of the lawsuit. I am, however, saying that they are and can be one important part of the lawsuit, not necessarily THE most important part.
If you don't want to use that information to your advantage, fine by me.
Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 62
15 hp loss on the Max
I have a question. Has anyone been to a Dyno with their Max running a quality 96 or higher octane gas? If I could remember the Import mag I was reading shortly after the 350Z started hitting the streets in it the editors did a Dyno run with the car on 93 octane and one with 96 octane and saw a significant power difference. Now with this in mind has anyone ever run their car on a Dyno Altima or Maxima with a Consult or any other code reader to see if they are triggering the Knock sensor? Or more specifically could it be that Nissan used more aggressive settings in the Maxima ECU to gain the 15 hp during engine development than used in the Altima. With this in mind if we are triggering the knock sensor under heavy load (aka Dyno Run) it will then retard the timing to reduce possible damage from detonation. By doing so a 15 HP loss is more than possible.
Just a thought mind you.
Just a thought mind you.
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Posts: n/a
Re: 15 hp loss on the Max
Originally posted by Stranger808
I have a question. Has anyone been to a Dyno with their Max running a quality 96 or higher octane gas? If I could remember the Import mag I was reading shortly after the 350Z started hitting the streets in it the editors did a Dyno run with the car on 93 octane and one with 96 octane and saw a significant power difference.
I have a question. Has anyone been to a Dyno with their Max running a quality 96 or higher octane gas? If I could remember the Import mag I was reading shortly after the 350Z started hitting the streets in it the editors did a Dyno run with the car on 93 octane and one with 96 octane and saw a significant power difference.
They don't say you have to buy 96 octane race fuel or even 93 octane fuel to get the advertised 255 horsepower....
Who the hell is going to go buy 96 octane fuel everytime they fill up?
My mom is 50, she has a 2k2...she won't be buying any 96 octane fuel, but she should have 255hp...like Nissan told her she had. I can't afford 96 ocatne fuel everytime I fill up...but I can make my 2k3 Maxima Payments...I should have the 255 hp with 91 octane...
we want what we paid for...
who cares what gains we could have with 96 octane...that's like saying..."OH YOU COULD GET A HP BUMP BY PUTTING A BLOWER ON HER!"
no **** sherlock....we want the STOCK 255hp...so when we Supercharge our beloved VQ we'll have even more power...
ok johnvt1111, I think it's time we get this thread locked up...w/only updates from the lawyer...these guys are as dumb as you say.
-vq
Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 62
VQ Man
So this is now a thread where you decide who can post or not is it. What is it exactly that makes you an authority on Nissan power plants?
My question was just that a thought. Your comment is simply an insult. Last I checked this is an enthusiast site to which we can all ask questions and make comments Educated or not. In this instance mine was educated. Yours was not.
My question was just that a thought. Your comment is simply an insult. Last I checked this is an enthusiast site to which we can all ask questions and make comments Educated or not. In this instance mine was educated. Yours was not.
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,815
From: Atlanta
Re: Re: 15 hp loss on the Max
Originally posted by VQMAN
Nissan says that the car has 255 hp at the crank with 'premium' 91 Octane fuel. The kind you can buy at any gas station....
They don't say you have to buy 96 octane race fuel or even 93 octane fuel to get the advertised 255 horsepower....
Who the hell is going to go buy 96 octane fuel everytime they fill up?
My mom is 50, she has a 2k2...she won't be buying any 96 octane fuel, but she should have 255hp...like Nissan told her she had. I can't afford 96 ocatne fuel everytime I fill up...but I can make my 2k3 Maxima Payments...I should have the 255 hp with 91 octane...
we want what we paid for...
who cares what gains we could have with 96 octane...that's like saying..."OH YOU COULD GET A HP BUMP BY PUTTING A BLOWER ON HER!"
no **** sherlock....we want the STOCK 255hp...so when we Supercharge our beloved VQ we'll have even more power...
ok johnvt1111, I think it's time we get this thread locked up...w/only updates from the lawyer...these guys are as dumb as you say.-vq
Nissan says that the car has 255 hp at the crank with 'premium' 91 Octane fuel. The kind you can buy at any gas station....
They don't say you have to buy 96 octane race fuel or even 93 octane fuel to get the advertised 255 horsepower....
Who the hell is going to go buy 96 octane fuel everytime they fill up?
My mom is 50, she has a 2k2...she won't be buying any 96 octane fuel, but she should have 255hp...like Nissan told her she had. I can't afford 96 ocatne fuel everytime I fill up...but I can make my 2k3 Maxima Payments...I should have the 255 hp with 91 octane...
we want what we paid for...
who cares what gains we could have with 96 octane...that's like saying..."OH YOU COULD GET A HP BUMP BY PUTTING A BLOWER ON HER!"
no **** sherlock....we want the STOCK 255hp...so when we Supercharge our beloved VQ we'll have even more power...
ok johnvt1111, I think it's time we get this thread locked up...w/only updates from the lawyer...these guys are as dumb as you say.-vq
Stranger808 has a valid question and I don't see it answered in this or any other thread. Also Nismo87SE posted this in your Dyno test thread.
If possible you need to get a nissan CONSULT to datalog the dyno runs. If the atmospheric conditions are different between what the ECU see's vs the dyno, the results are invalid. For reference here was the test procedure for the 99 cobra below. Basically top off the engine/tranny fluid if it isn't full already, run 32-35psi in the tires, make sure the cooling fans don't activate during the dyno pulls. Also try to keep the engine coolant around the same temp for each run.
http://www.bonforums.com/mustang/cobra_99dynotest.htm
http://www.bonforums.com/mustang/cobra_99dynotest.htm
Also with regard to the octane I can't get 91 here in Atlanta it's 87 89 & 93.
My point is it never hurts to tag your bases.
This thread has turned into a joke with people quick to jump in and post useless info while when a question that has some merit is asked he gets jumped. And there are no updates from the people in touch with the attorneys allowing this to get out of control with mindless speculation followed by incongruous arguments.
So now that I'm sure to get flamed myself I will unsubscribe from this thread before my email gets loaded.
Good luck all.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Re: Re: 15 hp loss on the Max
Originally posted by maximaman777
VQ please don't be so fast to pound people and be so 1 dimensional. Many people on this forum "look" at a post and don't "read" the post picking the 1 thing they have on their mind and not listening to the rest while proceding to flame.
Stranger808 has a valid question and I don't see it answered in this or any other thread. Also Nismo87SE posted this in your Dyno test thread.
With all of these Dyno's being done has anyone had a Consult II or a scanner hooked up the the car durning the run? Yes the car goes open loop at WOT but this info could shed some light on what the ECU is doing at the time of the run. Wouldn't this be helpful? Couldn't this also be brought up in court by Nissan.
Also with regard to the octane I can't get 91 here in Atlanta it's 87 89 & 93.
My point is it never hurts to tag your bases.
This thread has turned into a joke with people quick to jump in and post useless info while when a question that has some merit is asked he gets jumped. And there are no updates from the people in touch with the attorneys allowing this to get out of control with mindless speculation followed by incongruous arguments.
So now that I'm sure to get flamed myself I will unsubscribe from this thread before my email gets loaded.
Good luck all.
VQ please don't be so fast to pound people and be so 1 dimensional. Many people on this forum "look" at a post and don't "read" the post picking the 1 thing they have on their mind and not listening to the rest while proceding to flame.
Stranger808 has a valid question and I don't see it answered in this or any other thread. Also Nismo87SE posted this in your Dyno test thread.
With all of these Dyno's being done has anyone had a Consult II or a scanner hooked up the the car durning the run? Yes the car goes open loop at WOT but this info could shed some light on what the ECU is doing at the time of the run. Wouldn't this be helpful? Couldn't this also be brought up in court by Nissan.
Also with regard to the octane I can't get 91 here in Atlanta it's 87 89 & 93.
My point is it never hurts to tag your bases.
This thread has turned into a joke with people quick to jump in and post useless info while when a question that has some merit is asked he gets jumped. And there are no updates from the people in touch with the attorneys allowing this to get out of control with mindless speculation followed by incongruous arguments.
So now that I'm sure to get flamed myself I will unsubscribe from this thread before my email gets loaded.
Good luck all.
it would be nice to get an update from the guys in touch w/lawyers.
-sorry for being a flaming *****...
-vq
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,815
From: Atlanta
Re: Re: Re: Re: 15 hp loss on the Max
Originally posted by VQMAN
yeah, i am quick to flame...it's a legit question, just not for this thread...
it would be nice to get an update from the guys in touch w/lawyers.
yeah, i am quick to flame...it's a legit question, just not for this thread...
it would be nice to get an update from the guys in touch w/lawyers.
As Dave B has said the TQ numbers for the Alty & Max are the same so this should be cut and dry. All we are doing with these Dyno's is confirming that. But we need the ECU info to keep the data accurate.
Yes we need an update. Steve whats up?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 15 hp loss on the Max
Originally posted by maximaman777
It is good for this thread. We need to know this stuff.
As Dave B has said the TQ numbers for the Alty & Max are the same so this should be cut and dry. All we are doing with these Dyno's is confirming that. But we need the ECU info to keep the data accurate.
Yes we need an update. Steve whats up?
It is good for this thread. We need to know this stuff.
As Dave B has said the TQ numbers for the Alty & Max are the same so this should be cut and dry. All we are doing with these Dyno's is confirming that. But we need the ECU info to keep the data accurate.
Yes we need an update. Steve whats up?
-vq
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 458
You guys would never find a lawyer to take on the suit. There are too many loopholes.
Manufactures measure HP at the crankshaft as gross or net. Gross HP is the engine's power in perfect tune, with no accessories on it at all and no mufflers to restrict it, taken at the flywheel. Net Hp is also at the flywheel, but in regular tune with the mufflers in place, and all accessories on it.
What is the manufacturer advertising? Gross or Net? 99% of the time they advertise Gross HP.
No lawyer would take on a suit disputing +/- 15 HP. It's the difference in Gross and Net HP. Since there are so many ways to measure, it's a subjective number that is simply meant as a guide.
Those are just two defenses. That's what they would use to FUBAR your argument.
Also, would any manufacturer leave themselves open like this? They'd have to be insane to purposely or accidently mislead folks on a HP claim. They know there are going to be challenges, believe me, they covered their ***.
-Steve
'03 SE loaded 'cept NAV
Manufactures measure HP at the crankshaft as gross or net. Gross HP is the engine's power in perfect tune, with no accessories on it at all and no mufflers to restrict it, taken at the flywheel. Net Hp is also at the flywheel, but in regular tune with the mufflers in place, and all accessories on it.
What is the manufacturer advertising? Gross or Net? 99% of the time they advertise Gross HP.
No lawyer would take on a suit disputing +/- 15 HP. It's the difference in Gross and Net HP. Since there are so many ways to measure, it's a subjective number that is simply meant as a guide.
Those are just two defenses. That's what they would use to FUBAR your argument.
Also, would any manufacturer leave themselves open like this? They'd have to be insane to purposely or accidently mislead folks on a HP claim. They know there are going to be challenges, believe me, they covered their ***.
-Steve
'03 SE loaded 'cept NAV
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by itdood
You guys would never find a lawyer to take on the suit. There are too many loopholes.
Manufactures measure HP at the crankshaft as gross or net. Gross HP is the engine's power in perfect tune, with no accessories on it at all and no mufflers to restrict it, taken at the flywheel. Net Hp is also at the flywheel, but in regular tune with the mufflers in place, and all accessories on it.
What is the manufacturer advertising? Gross or Net?
No lawyer would take on a suit disputing +/- 15 HP. It's the difference in Gross and Net HP. Since there are so many ways to measure, it's a subjective number that is simply meant as a guide.
Those are just two defenses. That's what they would use to FUBAR your argument.
-Steve
'03 SE loaded 'cept NAV
You guys would never find a lawyer to take on the suit. There are too many loopholes.
Manufactures measure HP at the crankshaft as gross or net. Gross HP is the engine's power in perfect tune, with no accessories on it at all and no mufflers to restrict it, taken at the flywheel. Net Hp is also at the flywheel, but in regular tune with the mufflers in place, and all accessories on it.
What is the manufacturer advertising? Gross or Net?
No lawyer would take on a suit disputing +/- 15 HP. It's the difference in Gross and Net HP. Since there are so many ways to measure, it's a subjective number that is simply meant as a guide.
Those are just two defenses. That's what they would use to FUBAR your argument.
-Steve
'03 SE loaded 'cept NAV
we already have a lawyer...
Mazda lost a suit dealing with LESS than 15 horsepower difference
Ford lost a suit w/20hp difference
Hyundai lost a suit with 5-10 hp-depending on the model...
One wouldn't think 15 horsepower could be proved in court, but it's been done several times in recent past...
-vq
[QUOTE]Originally posted by itdood
[B]You guys would never find a lawyer to take on the suit. There are too many loopholes.
Manufactures measure HP at the crankshaft as gross or net. Gross HP is the engine's power in perfect tune, with no accessories on it at all and no mufflers to restrict it, taken at the flywheel. Net Hp is also at the flywheel, but in regular tune with the mufflers in place, and all accessories on it.
What is the manufacturer advertising? Gross or Net? 99% of the time they advertise Gross HP.
No lawyer would take on a suit disputing +/- 15 HP. It's the difference in Gross and Net HP. Since there are so many ways to measure, it's a subjective number that is simply meant as a guide.
Those are just two defenses. That's what they would use to FUBAR your argument.
I am so tired of hearing people say that nothing is going to come of this. If that's how you feel, then fine, but it's not costing you a cent or taking up any of YOUR time. So, what do you care???
It's these negative people that will be first on line to collect anything that Nissan might offer if there is a win. It's the same negative comments being made OVER and OVER again. Try reading the previous 15 pages before you post.
[B]You guys would never find a lawyer to take on the suit. There are too many loopholes.
Manufactures measure HP at the crankshaft as gross or net. Gross HP is the engine's power in perfect tune, with no accessories on it at all and no mufflers to restrict it, taken at the flywheel. Net Hp is also at the flywheel, but in regular tune with the mufflers in place, and all accessories on it.
What is the manufacturer advertising? Gross or Net? 99% of the time they advertise Gross HP.
No lawyer would take on a suit disputing +/- 15 HP. It's the difference in Gross and Net HP. Since there are so many ways to measure, it's a subjective number that is simply meant as a guide.
Those are just two defenses. That's what they would use to FUBAR your argument.
I am so tired of hearing people say that nothing is going to come of this. If that's how you feel, then fine, but it's not costing you a cent or taking up any of YOUR time. So, what do you care???
It's these negative people that will be first on line to collect anything that Nissan might offer if there is a win. It's the same negative comments being made OVER and OVER again. Try reading the previous 15 pages before you post.
Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 62
Lawyers
Finding a lawyer to take the case it not hard
Getting all the Ducks in a Row can be
I feel that there is a good chance that this case can be won
You just have to follow the directions that your lawyer gives and provide him the info he needs for litigation
If presented as a Class action suite with the all the needed info
this case can and will be won
But by not doing things right there is no chance
Getting all the Ducks in a Row can be
I feel that there is a good chance that this case can be won
You just have to follow the directions that your lawyer gives and provide him the info he needs for litigation
If presented as a Class action suite with the all the needed info
this case can and will be won
But by not doing things right there is no chance
Guest
Posts: n/a
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SupaFly
[B]
these kind of people are to lazy to read the previous 15 pages...just like they are to lazy to help out with the lawsuit, but they are more than happy to post *****, and will be (like you said) the first in line to collect when/if we win.
-vq
[B]
Originally posted by itdood
Try reading the previous 15 pages before you post.
Try reading the previous 15 pages before you post.
-vq
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 458
Originally posted by VQMAN
these kind of people are to lazy to read the previous 15 pages...just like they are to lazy to help out with the lawsuit, but they are more than happy to post *****, and will be (like you said) the first in line to collect when/if we win.
-vq
these kind of people are to lazy to read the previous 15 pages...just like they are to lazy to help out with the lawsuit, but they are more than happy to post *****, and will be (like you said) the first in line to collect when/if we win.
-vq
If I had a lot of free time, I would have read the previous 15 page.
Thanks for judging me, I hope you get the same level of respect in your every day life.
I still haven't gotten an answer to a valid point, what was advertised, Gross or Net HP?
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,815
From: Atlanta
Originally posted by itdood
I still haven't gotten an answer to a valid point, what was advertised, Gross or Net HP?
I still haven't gotten an answer to a valid point, what was advertised, Gross or Net HP?
I will look at my sticker and brochure when I get home and report back.
I still haven't gotten an answer to a valid point, what was advertised, Gross or Net HP? [/B][/QUOTE]
Engine manufacturers measure power at the crankshaft with an engine dynamometer. Outside the engineering lab we use chassis dynamometers (dyno's) to measure the power reaching the wheels.
Engine manufacturers typically measure horsepower by operating a "bare" engine (one that is not yet equipped with accessories or installed in power equipment) at its "rated speed." The rated speed for most engines normally is 3600 RPM. Measuring a "bare" engine at its "rated speed" produces a number referred to as gross horsepower.
Engine manufacturers must base their claims of power upon the standard selected by the country in which the claim is being made. In the US, the standards body for engine power is the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). I think i'm correct in assuming that the US has more limitations on emissions which would reduce total horsepower, as opposed to say...Germany.
Engine manufacturers measure power at the crankshaft with an engine dynamometer. Outside the engineering lab we use chassis dynamometers (dyno's) to measure the power reaching the wheels.
Engine manufacturers typically measure horsepower by operating a "bare" engine (one that is not yet equipped with accessories or installed in power equipment) at its "rated speed." The rated speed for most engines normally is 3600 RPM. Measuring a "bare" engine at its "rated speed" produces a number referred to as gross horsepower.
Engine manufacturers must base their claims of power upon the standard selected by the country in which the claim is being made. In the US, the standards body for engine power is the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). I think i'm correct in assuming that the US has more limitations on emissions which would reduce total horsepower, as opposed to say...Germany.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by itdood
Thanks for judging me, I hope you get the same level of respect in your every day life.
Thanks for judging me, I hope you get the same level of respect in your every day life.
look...you'll soon realize that posting stuff about topics without reading just a little into it, will usually get you flamed around here....but we love having you in the org. (not that I'm exactly representing, but don't leave because of an overgrown punk like me)
-vq