AKM2k5

I agree, TL or 3 series... Not M3 though...

MaxAppeal

who said they are perfect? but do not compare the 5 to the max. true bmw's are not known for reliability. i just dont know how that is supposed to put it in a class with the max.

if you take care of the 5 religiously, it will go twice as far as the max. it is better engineered. downside is that it is more tempermental. so if you wait a few extra K miles to change oil, etc you will NOT have a great beemer ownership experience. maxima can withstand a little abuse, unlike the bmw. but if you baby the max and the 5, the 5 will outlast in every category.

the auto industry is a highly segemnted market. no 5 series sales are lost due to the max. 5 looses sales to A6 and GS. if any beemer has sales affected, it is the 3- when the max is considered.

thrasher

MaxAppeal

nice to see another informed max.org member

i love the max. but i am a car enthusiast first. max enthusiast second.

C430

My comparison is based on size (internal and external dimensions), weight, and overall design. The Max, like the 530 and the A6 and the Saab 9-5, are all high performance 4-door sedans of very high quality, that are a pleasure to drive whether you are just blending with traffic or pedal to the metal "spirited" driving. You can not get that same kind of "package" from a Camry, Sable, or Accord.

Like I said early on in this string, there will be some who will disagree, but that's OK. I disagree somewhat with your assessment that no 5 series are lost to the Max. The folks at BMW and other European makers had to be scratching their heads (at one time) about how the Japanese manufacturers can make cars with tremendous performance, higher build quality and greater reliability, sell the cars for less money, and havethese cars be so popular. If this were not true, the Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura brands would never have been so successful.

I totally disagree with your assessment that the BMW will take an owner twice as far as a Max. Every day you can see Japanese cars that have 200K+ and have obviously led hard lives - and they just keep on rolling. BMWs if you take care of them will last a long time, after all they are among the finest cars available. But I can't see how you can get twice the mileage without major component replacement. No way.

MaxAppeal

IM NOT GOING TO TOUCH your assesment of the max being that simialar to the 5. i will just let it go. but in no way conceed my point regarding it.

the comment about twice as far is a little of an overstatement. but if you took an 02 max and an 02 530i, took meticulous care of both for 200k miles, then tested and compared each one to a new 02... you will see the 530i will be in much better shape (including perfomance, interior and exterior). plus the 530 will feel as if it go another 200K, unlike the max.

again, the auto industry is a highly segmented market! do some research and study the industry, you will see how each car serves a distinct demographic (dont look at american automakers; they have no idea what they are doing.)

maxiiiboy

Well, I think that the following cars have a lot in common. They tend to attract the same kind of buyer that the Maxima does:

Acura TL - not as sporty, a bit more expensive, equally reliable
Passat GLX (V6) - rated higher by some magazines, but not as reliable as the Maxima
Accord V6 (2003 and up) - a bit bland but the horsepower and quality is there
BMW 5-series - a LOT more expensive, and presumably the best sports sedan there is

spauldingsmails

BMWs obviously makes good cars. I like BMWs, especially the M series and Z3 / Z4. That said, and as a few others here have mentioned, BMW does not always finish (or get rated) first. In fact, it often finishes 2nd, or 3rd, or worse when compared to other brands. And when it doesn't win, it often is trailing, suprise, Japanese nameplates.

So is BMW really the most reliable car? In new vehicle reliablity (specifically how each model compares in its class with the average reliability of all 2000, 2001, and 2002 vehicles) Consumer Reports a/o March 2003 says BMW 5 Series trails two Japanese makes, and the 3 Series trails six makes including three Japanese. These data are derived from the 2002 annual survey of Consumer Reports' subscribers, covering experiences with about 480,000 vehicles.

In "Family Car" class, the Maxima is in first place. Does that proove a Max is more reliable than a 3 series or 5 series? No. But the 2003 and prior Maxes are still 95% made-in-Japan Nissans with excellent build quality.

Compared to the 5th gen Max manual trans, the BMW 530i, 525i, 330i, and 325i are each nicer, have higher resale, and are more prestigious, among other things. But each of these BMWs is also smaller, yet slower, and more expensive; and maybe of lower reliability as well.

Alright, let the flaming begin...

255HP_03_SE

I saw a picture of a Nissan manufacturing plant in Tennessee...

spauldingsmails

Right, and I really wonder what the future holds for the built-in-USA Max. I'd be surprised if the quality of the 6th gen Max is as good as that of prior years. I wouldn't be too surprised if there were no 2007 Max made at all, actually.

255HP_03_SE

au contraire...

a lot of car manufacturers have had the benefit of being able to 'fuse' with one of the Big 3. Jaguar quality was headed completely downhill until Ford took over. Same with Lotus. Chrysler went the other way after Daimler took over.

I think the quality of the 6th Gen Max is there... just trying to wedge it into other markets. Look at how far the Altima has come as well (remember the 1st Gens?).

R

MaxAppeal

this scares me also.. non-japan-built maxima is a tough sell to me. im just wondering if most consumers feel this way also. the accord has done extremely well.

annimax

tary44

i would definitely compare max to 3 and 530 top
i dont even dare to think of comparin it to a 540
seriously, if i have the money, i would choose 540 over a max
no offense, guys
but then, 540 costs twice as much as max
:*(

JdoubleOe703

iTrader: (6)

just remembered, we all forgot about the ALTIMA, because they are probably equal side by side LOL... damn nissan

cwerdna

I don't know how you can come up w/the statements in your last paragraph. In the most recent April auto issue of Consumer Reports, every year that they had data on 5 series reliability, it got average every year except 1 where it got better than average. But the Maxima got better than average for all years.

How many BMWs are still going strong after 200K miles? A friend w/an admittedly old (86) 3 series w/160K miles has tons of problems. I'd classify the car as falling apart.

MaxAppeal

My anecdotal evidence...

I've lived in the Germany for 6 years a while back. Many have BMW's with over 200K on them (as a second car). But they are meticulously cared for. If you would drive one, you would be amazed at the performance and stability. Paint is great. Interior is flawless. You do not see BMW buckets in Germany. They will not let you drive them there. Thats why they are maintained well.

In the US, drivethru's, carwashes, neglect of personal property, are very much instilled in our culture- Not that much in Germany (why do you think BMW's have crappy cupholders? Germans do not use them! Their 5's are for driving, not dining!)

The Maxima is car more capable of dealing with US life, the 5 is not. BMW is tempermental to our way of life. This is one of the reasons I do not drive one: Although I love the car. Maybe when I'm 40 I'll get one. Now, at 25, I'm too run n' gun. No way could i treat a 5 the way it needs it. PLus the car is friggin expensive here to drive and maintain. And I have other plans for my $ (real estate, business,etc). Thats why I drive a Maxima...and I never regret it.

tbirdrob

And it's still the cheapest sedan they make that can beat a Maxima.

C430

The flaming began last week.

C430

The 540's V-8 is awesome, that's enough for me.

C430

There's also a very strong possibility that these older BMWs have had major components either replaced or rebuilt - engine, transmission, CV joints, etc.

F23A4

I've been checking out the 540 and GS400/GS430 as replacement possibilities for my 2K2 and I'm definitely leaning towards the GS @ this point. It's not the driver's car that the 540 is but the GS's V8 has more than enough to run with the 540 auto AND with undisputed quality.

Anyhow, the Maxima is NOT a competitor for the 540 but the 530 is fair game. Now the M45 is comp for the 540, but not the Max/I35.

Peace.

Ceasars Chariot

iTrader: (16)

:laugh rofl !!!! The camry the next Griswold family junker...oops ..clunker !

tary44

well
who here will still be driving their max with 200k and without any major mod... seriously....
who cares about how long 5 or max will last after 10yrs or 20yrs of driving..........
and stop comparin it to 540...
although i love my max, i know what my max can do and im sure a 540 can smoke it like theres no tomolo

kenny

If money is no object, I will take the 540 in a heart beat. Be real ... the Max is out-classed not only in terms of price, but also in terms of technology, prestige, agility, resale value ... The saving grace is Max's reliability and affordability. I love my 03 Sheer Silver Max with black interior leather, but would not hesitate at all to swap it for a spanking new 03 540 if it is free ;-)

cwerdna

So these cars had more than 320,000 kilometers on them? Just wanted to be sure you got your units right.