Why didn't Nissan do 17x7.5?
01-21-2002, 08:28 PM
#2
Re: Why didn't Nissan do 17x7.5?
Originally posted by jnovember
Was it cost? Would 17x7.5 really have cost that much more (if at all)? Any other possible reasons?
Was it cost? Would 17x7.5 really have cost that much more (if at all)? Any other possible reasons?
01-22-2002, 12:14 AM
#3
Re: Why didn't Nissan do 17x7.5?
Originally posted by jnovember
Was it cost? Would 17x7.5 really have cost that much more (if at all)? Any other possible reasons?
Was it cost? Would 17x7.5 really have cost that much more (if at all)? Any other possible reasons?
01-22-2002, 03:49 AM
#5
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Re: Why didn't Nissan do 17x7.5?
Originally posted by jnovember
Was it cost? Would 17x7.5 really have cost that much more (if at all)? Any other possible reasons?
Was it cost? Would 17x7.5 really have cost that much more (if at all)? Any other possible reasons?
Actually, the proportion of cars OE-supplied with rims toward the wide end of the acceptable width range is quite small. At least Nissan settled on the middle of the range (6" - 8") instead of compromising the handling even further with 6.5-inchers or worse.
Related to softening the ride for test drive purposes is the likelihood of the tires being slightly underinflated before delivery (all 4 of mine were 4 - 6 psi low vs the 32 spec on the tire decal).
Norm
01-22-2002, 05:31 AM
#6
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,038
The reason?
Conspiracy/Unfair Competition Theory:
Car manufacturer and tire dealer work out a deal. Nissan uses Bridgestone and gets good price. In exchange, Nissan uses off size with rim that won't technically accomodate wider tires.
Nissan makes more money. Bridgestone has near monopoly on relatively expensive tires for 17" rim maxima - makes more money.
Interesting question: are there other nissan wheel/tire combos with Bridgestone tires and similar issues?
I'm not saying its true - it just seems awfully ironic.
If it was true - they'd both be in deep poo.
Conspiracy/Unfair Competition Theory:
Car manufacturer and tire dealer work out a deal. Nissan uses Bridgestone and gets good price. In exchange, Nissan uses off size with rim that won't technically accomodate wider tires.
Nissan makes more money. Bridgestone has near monopoly on relatively expensive tires for 17" rim maxima - makes more money.
Interesting question: are there other nissan wheel/tire combos with Bridgestone tires and similar issues?
I'm not saying its true - it just seems awfully ironic.
If it was true - they'd both be in deep poo.
01-22-2002, 01:22 PM
#7
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 183
Originally posted by Max_Gator
The reason?
Conspiracy/Unfair Competition Theory:
Car manufacturer and tire dealer work out a deal. Nissan uses Bridgestone and gets good price. In exchange, Nissan uses off size with rim that won't technically accomodate wider tires.
Nissan makes more money. Bridgestone has near monopoly on relatively expensive tires for 17" rim maxima - makes more money.
Interesting question: are there other nissan wheel/tire combos with Bridgestone tires and similar issues?
I'm not saying its true - it just seems awfully ironic.
If it was true - they'd both be in deep poo.
The reason?
Conspiracy/Unfair Competition Theory:
Car manufacturer and tire dealer work out a deal. Nissan uses Bridgestone and gets good price. In exchange, Nissan uses off size with rim that won't technically accomodate wider tires.
Nissan makes more money. Bridgestone has near monopoly on relatively expensive tires for 17" rim maxima - makes more money.
Interesting question: are there other nissan wheel/tire combos with Bridgestone tires and similar issues?
I'm not saying its true - it just seems awfully ironic.
If it was true - they'd both be in deep poo.
01-22-2002, 02:18 PM
#8
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,038
Originally posted by eortiz15
How your theory holds when they built the 16" and 15" models ?
How your theory holds when they built the 16" and 15" models ?
I was referring to the 17" wheels (as a careful reading of what I wrote reflects).
The 15 and 16 aren't Bridgestones stock.
It was meant to be tongue-in-cheek (mainly).
01-22-2002, 03:09 PM
#9
Originally posted by Max_Gator
The reason?
Conspiracy/Unfair Competition Theory:
Car manufacturer and tire dealer work out a deal. Nissan uses Bridgestone and gets good price. In exchange, Nissan uses off size with rim that won't technically accomodate wider tires.
Nissan makes more money. Bridgestone has near monopoly on relatively expensive tires for 17" rim maxima - makes more money.
Interesting question: are there other nissan wheel/tire combos with Bridgestone tires and similar issues?
I'm not saying its true - it just seems awfully ironic.
If it was true - they'd both be in deep poo.
The reason?
Conspiracy/Unfair Competition Theory:
Car manufacturer and tire dealer work out a deal. Nissan uses Bridgestone and gets good price. In exchange, Nissan uses off size with rim that won't technically accomodate wider tires.
Nissan makes more money. Bridgestone has near monopoly on relatively expensive tires for 17" rim maxima - makes more money.
Interesting question: are there other nissan wheel/tire combos with Bridgestone tires and similar issues?
I'm not saying its true - it just seems awfully ironic.
If it was true - they'd both be in deep poo.
01-22-2002, 05:16 PM
#10
Re: Re: Why didn't Nissan do 17x7.5?
Originally posted by Newman96SE
im sure its a money issue. i dont see any other reason for it.
im sure its a money issue. i dont see any other reason for it.
wider rims: more material>more weight>more width>less rims per truck>hire more truck>more expense>more headache>just get the 7inch rims!
01-22-2002, 10:43 PM
#11
Originally posted by cobymoby
For ride quality. The skinnier the tires, better the ride. Fatter tires, better performance, worse ride.
For ride quality. The skinnier the tires, better the ride. Fatter tires, better performance, worse ride.
No, the answer is the turning radius. The maxima has a 40.ft curb to curb turning radius. If they make the rims any wider, the wheels cannot turn as much, increasing the turning circle radius. Also the fact that the car is FWD has to do with it. Ride has NOTHING to do with tire width. Tire speed rating and inflation pressure affect the ride. All season traction is not affected so much by tire width, it is more affected by tire design. The best Tires that i have found are Michelin XGT Z4's, the only problem is that they are somewhat pricey. Also, the maximas tires are relatively narrow (225). As for performance, narrow tires give better steering feel, but less grip. Wider tires cloud the steering feel.
01-25-2002, 12:56 AM
#13
Originally posted by Max_Gator
The reason?
Conspiracy/Unfair Competition Theory:
Car manufacturer and tire dealer work out a deal. Nissan uses Bridgestone and gets good price. In exchange, Nissan uses off size with rim that won't technically accomodate wider tires.
Nissan makes more money. Bridgestone has near monopoly on relatively expensive tires for 17" rim maxima - makes more money.
Interesting question: are there other nissan wheel/tire combos with Bridgestone tires and similar issues?
I'm not saying its true - it just seems awfully ironic.
If it was true - they'd both be in deep poo.
The reason?
Conspiracy/Unfair Competition Theory:
Car manufacturer and tire dealer work out a deal. Nissan uses Bridgestone and gets good price. In exchange, Nissan uses off size with rim that won't technically accomodate wider tires.
Nissan makes more money. Bridgestone has near monopoly on relatively expensive tires for 17" rim maxima - makes more money.
Interesting question: are there other nissan wheel/tire combos with Bridgestone tires and similar issues?
I'm not saying its true - it just seems awfully ironic.
If it was true - they'd both be in deep poo.
01-25-2002, 01:13 AM
#14
Originally posted by E55AMG2
No, the answer is the turning radius. The maxima has a 40.ft curb to curb turning radius. If they make the rims any wider, the wheels cannot turn as much, increasing the turning circle radius. Also the fact that the car is FWD has to do with it. Ride has NOTHING to do with tire width. Tire speed rating and inflation pressure affect the ride. All season traction is not affected so much by tire width, it is more affected by tire design. The best Tires that i have found are Michelin XGT Z4's, the only problem is that they are somewhat pricey. Also, the maximas tires are relatively narrow (225). As for performance, narrow tires give better steering feel, but less grip. Wider tires cloud the steering feel.
No, the answer is the turning radius. The maxima has a 40.ft curb to curb turning radius. If they make the rims any wider, the wheels cannot turn as much, increasing the turning circle radius. Also the fact that the car is FWD has to do with it. Ride has NOTHING to do with tire width. Tire speed rating and inflation pressure affect the ride. All season traction is not affected so much by tire width, it is more affected by tire design. The best Tires that i have found are Michelin XGT Z4's, the only problem is that they are somewhat pricey. Also, the maximas tires are relatively narrow (225). As for performance, narrow tires give better steering feel, but less grip. Wider tires cloud the steering feel.
01-25-2002, 11:40 AM
#16
Originally posted by Max_Gator
Yeah, and Microsoft doesn't engage in anti-competitive practices either.
Yeah, and Microsoft doesn't engage in anti-competitive practices either.
Tires are not an optional component of an automobile (like a web browser of an OS)...Nissan would not be expected to ship their vehicles with no wheels or tires to ensure all vendors on the market a fair chance at selling their wheel/tire combination to buyers.
So....
You know, I was just thinking that it is awfully ironic how Nissan ships all their cars with Nissan engines. Could they be engaging in anti-competitive behavior, not allowing other engine-makers to fit their engines into the Maxima?
01-25-2002, 12:42 PM
#17
Originally posted by MichaelAE
My roll eyes was mostly because I don't think they'd be in all that much "deep poo." There are other tire vendors who provide 225/55/17's. Just because Bridgestone sells them cheaper doesn't mean they are being anti-competitive. Its called competitive pricing. If Bridgestone was really able to corner the market with pricing, Nitto, Michelin, and Kuhmo would merely lower their prices to compete. Hence...competitive behavior, not anti-competitive. If Michelin sold their Pilot Sport A/S to Nissan for $10/each, I'm gonna bet they'd switch their vendors.
Tires are not an optional component of an automobile (like a web browser of an OS)...Nissan would not be expected to ship their vehicles with no wheels or tires to ensure all vendors on the market a fair chance at selling their wheel/tire combination to buyers.
So....
You know, I was just thinking that it is awfully ironic how Nissan ships all their cars with Nissan engines. Could they be engaging in anti-competitive behavior, not allowing other engine-makers to fit their engines into the Maxima?
My roll eyes was mostly because I don't think they'd be in all that much "deep poo." There are other tire vendors who provide 225/55/17's. Just because Bridgestone sells them cheaper doesn't mean they are being anti-competitive. Its called competitive pricing. If Bridgestone was really able to corner the market with pricing, Nitto, Michelin, and Kuhmo would merely lower their prices to compete. Hence...competitive behavior, not anti-competitive. If Michelin sold their Pilot Sport A/S to Nissan for $10/each, I'm gonna bet they'd switch their vendors.
Tires are not an optional component of an automobile (like a web browser of an OS)...Nissan would not be expected to ship their vehicles with no wheels or tires to ensure all vendors on the market a fair chance at selling their wheel/tire combination to buyers.
So....
You know, I was just thinking that it is awfully ironic how Nissan ships all their cars with Nissan engines. Could they be engaging in anti-competitive behavior, not allowing other engine-makers to fit their engines into the Maxima?
01-25-2002, 01:41 PM
#20
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 1,341
Originally posted by E55AMG2
I have an uncle who is a mechanical engineer for American Honda. I asked him the question and he told me that was the answer. It is a problem With all FWD cars, especially ones with v6's.
I have an uncle who is a mechanical engineer for American Honda. I asked him the question and he told me that was the answer. It is a problem With all FWD cars, especially ones with v6's.
Norm
01-25-2002, 02:05 PM
#21
Originally posted by E55AMG2
I have an uncle who is a mechanical engineer for American Honda. I asked him the question and he told me that was the answer. It is a problem With all FWD cars, especially ones with v6's.
I have an uncle who is a mechanical engineer for American Honda. I asked him the question and he told me that was the answer. It is a problem With all FWD cars, especially ones with v6's.
01-25-2002, 05:52 PM
#23
Okay here's my humble refutation:
1. No, the answer is the turning radius. The maxima has a 40.ft curb to curb turning radius. If they make the rims any wider, the wheels cannot turn as much, increasing the turning circle radius. Also the fact that the car is FWD has to do with it.
- So what you're saying is that for the people with 18x8.5 and 18x8's, they have a larger turning radius? No, if the wheels have a proper offset, they will turn just as much as stockers. If they were too fat, you'd definately hear them rub on the suspension components.
2. Ride has NOTHING to do with tire width. Tire speed rating and inflation pressure affect the ride.
- There is a thing called contact patch which the larger it is, the more road noise is transfered from the pavement to the car. Why do you think that S500's and LS430's have stock 16x7's. Some pretty narrow a$$ tires for a big car. You need wider tires to hug the road - more friction.
3. All season traction is not affected so much by tire width, it is more affected by tire design.
- Try riding in a car with fat 285's in the rain and see how fun hydroplaning can be. A wider tire can't cut through puddles as well as thinner tires. Ask a motorcycle rider. They can go through 6 inche puddles w/o hydroplaning if they are going straight. Don't try it in a Corvette.
4. As for performance, narrow tires give better steering feel, but less grip. Wider tires cloud the steering feel.
- Sports cars come with wider tires for P-E-R-F-O-R-M-A-N-C-E reasons. As I said earlier, you need a large contact patch for good traction. Tire design does take into account, but the relation between tire width, and general performance characteristics have a very strong correlation. They don't make 265/30/18 rain tires last I checked.
1. No, the answer is the turning radius. The maxima has a 40.ft curb to curb turning radius. If they make the rims any wider, the wheels cannot turn as much, increasing the turning circle radius. Also the fact that the car is FWD has to do with it.
- So what you're saying is that for the people with 18x8.5 and 18x8's, they have a larger turning radius? No, if the wheels have a proper offset, they will turn just as much as stockers. If they were too fat, you'd definately hear them rub on the suspension components.
2. Ride has NOTHING to do with tire width. Tire speed rating and inflation pressure affect the ride.
- There is a thing called contact patch which the larger it is, the more road noise is transfered from the pavement to the car. Why do you think that S500's and LS430's have stock 16x7's. Some pretty narrow a$$ tires for a big car. You need wider tires to hug the road - more friction.
3. All season traction is not affected so much by tire width, it is more affected by tire design.
- Try riding in a car with fat 285's in the rain and see how fun hydroplaning can be. A wider tire can't cut through puddles as well as thinner tires. Ask a motorcycle rider. They can go through 6 inche puddles w/o hydroplaning if they are going straight. Don't try it in a Corvette.
4. As for performance, narrow tires give better steering feel, but less grip. Wider tires cloud the steering feel.
- Sports cars come with wider tires for P-E-R-F-O-R-M-A-N-C-E reasons. As I said earlier, you need a large contact patch for good traction. Tire design does take into account, but the relation between tire width, and general performance characteristics have a very strong correlation. They don't make 265/30/18 rain tires last I checked.
01-28-2002, 08:27 AM
#24
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 1,341
A few thoughts about ride, tire width, and contact patches . . .
Circumferential tread stiffness, which definitely affects ride, is going to be higher in wider widths within the same line of tires. For a given load rating, wider tires tend to have lower profiles as well. So you get less flex in the sidewalls (a good thing for handling but more harshness gets through). Granted, higher speed ratings usually result in stiffer treads, but having a tire with a stiff tread does not guarantee its having a high speed rating.
The patch itself has nothing to do with transmitting vibrations up to the wheel. After all, it's only a 2-D representation of the intersection of a deformed doughnut with a plane (approximately, anyway). Tread details within this shape (tread block design, actual contact patch pressure distribution and patch shape) affect how much (and what kind of) noise is generated, but how much of this noise gets through to the wheel thereafter is only a function of tire structural stiffnesses and inflation pressure.
Norm
Circumferential tread stiffness, which definitely affects ride, is going to be higher in wider widths within the same line of tires. For a given load rating, wider tires tend to have lower profiles as well. So you get less flex in the sidewalls (a good thing for handling but more harshness gets through). Granted, higher speed ratings usually result in stiffer treads, but having a tire with a stiff tread does not guarantee its having a high speed rating.
The patch itself has nothing to do with transmitting vibrations up to the wheel. After all, it's only a 2-D representation of the intersection of a deformed doughnut with a plane (approximately, anyway). Tread details within this shape (tread block design, actual contact patch pressure distribution and patch shape) affect how much (and what kind of) noise is generated, but how much of this noise gets through to the wheel thereafter is only a function of tire structural stiffnesses and inflation pressure.
Norm
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