theshocker3.5

Yes you need to extend the wiring and solder them so the sensors which the o2 ports, both primary and secondary.

Make sure they are soldered and not crimped.

GL!

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Remember I am talking Air FUEL sensors (which come before the catalytic converter) NOT O/2 sensors which come after the cat.

Juiced SE-R

I extended my primary sensors both exactly six inches and it worked out perfect as far as extension length goes. Havent done my secondary sensors yet because I'm still waiting on my new y-pipe with the high flow cat but they will have to be extended way more than six inches which Dues already covered earlier in this thread.. I'm getting lean codes as well but I will figure it all out when I get all the new parts and get them on the car.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Okay got a little more info. You are all right about extending the AFR wires for the sensors that plug into the 3 to 1 collector. I just didn't realize that was part of the install. I must have missed it somehow.

On top of that, here is what the Nissan Tech who works on my car said.
The AFR sensors measure down to the thousandths (.000)
The O/2 sensore measure down to the hundredths (.00)The AFR sensors are so sensitive that even soldering could interfere with their readings. (Could this by why some guys are still getting codes?) He highly recommends against cutting splicing / soldering the AFR wires.

That is why he used some 2005 350z AFR sensors on my car instead. He said they are exactly the same except for the wire length. They are 3in longer and plug right in.

He also told me he wasn't 100% sure that the 350z AFR sensors he used in my car were functioning properly but he had them in his posession and opted for those rather than splicing the AFR wires.

He believes my gas mileage tanked because I was throwning lean codes so my car is dumping extra fuel into the mixture. (also a possible issue if the 350z AFR sensors were not 100% functional).

He recommends just buying some new 350z AFR sensors and using those. I can't afford to do that right now, so he agreed to splice and extend my OEM AFR sensor wires so I can at least dyno tune it tomorrow morning and hit the track tomorrow night.

Seems most people are having decent luck extending the wires so I'll go with that for now and then buy some 350z AFR sensors later and give those a shot.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

In what units I wonder? I'm sure it was not in AFR as we're used to seeing it. (13.xxx:1). Perhaps raw voltages. Either way, O2 signal / sensor wire is not meant to be cut / soldered / extended. It's signal wire, and is very sensitive. Any disruption in length, etc, can change it's properties and a whole slew of other variables which will in effect, alter their input to the ECU, thus possibly resulting in false codes.


It be nice to compare aftermarket WB readings to that of the OEM WB readings, before & after modifying the OEM wire.


That's a nice find re: the Z33 sensors.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Not sure how I would get "aftermarket WB readings to that of the OEM WB readings, before & after modifying the OEM wire"

Would my tech know how to do that? BTW, thanks for chiming in!

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I don't have much faith in Nissan techs.

There are a couple of data logging programs for Nissan, I use Cipher.

The idea here would be to compare the signal value using the software program before and after splicing of the wire. This will tell you if the cutting / soldering / splicing did anything to alter the readings.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

LOL, well I don't think we have Cipher up there but I see what you are saying.

You know if we are talking resistance caused by cutting splicing and soldering, I wonder if the extra length of wire in the 350z AFR adds resistance as well. Your right though comparing signal value would be huge.

Right now I got a feeling I have less power than before, it could be because I am running rich, fault 350z AFRs, or just that I need it tuned.

Touchy very touchy.

apf146

I know Ebay products are discouraged. I just wanted to know if anyone has ventured into the realm of Ebay and bought the headers that are on there?

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Yes. They fit... kinda.

apf146

What do you mean kinda? And, what do they include?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

If you know of any 350z guys in your area, you might want to ask if anyone has a Cipher, since more of the Z community uses them.



How 'rich' are you running, do you know?

Probably not because they (Z33 units) aren't cut, etc.

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

I would think Titan owners with the Cipher can do it too.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

& G dudes too.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

The ebay headers touch the starter, and part of the frame needs to be trimmed.

Just save up for the Cattman headers. Not a single fitment issue whatsoever... plus Brian runs an American company... those ebay headers are from China.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Okay soooo had my Maxima AFR lines extended and installed.




The car instantly had more power and the mileage jumped back up, I was getting around 31mpg on the highway on the way home last night. Eventually it gave me a check engine light but my mileage and power stay good. It was another lean code.

Either the 350z AFR sensors I had in there were bad or they don't work with our cars.

Dyno tuned today gained whp and torque all across the band. On the max reading it was 12whp and 10tq gain from adding the Cattman Headers. It was enough that I could feel the difference even before dynoing. (I'll post more in the dyno section later)

While 12whp an 10tq might not knock anybody out, it's fine with me considering my Pre-cats had failed anyway and it was either $1200 for new cats plus install or get the headers. That is a no brainer, I'll never have precats fail again and the car is faster and my gas mileage looks to be better than ever. I got 35mpg+ on the highway on the way home from the track tonight.

My best time at the track last year was a mile high 15.7, I hit that once and that was it. Tonight I ran nothing higher than 15.6 and got a personal best of 15.47 which translates to 14.35 after correction for altitude.

Unfortunatley my best time came when I got whipped by a hopped up bug running 13s. Bottom line no regrets getting my Cattman Headers.


Just for fun, here is one of me winning

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Keep in mind that peak numbers aren't that important, area under the curve is better.

Another idea is extending the connector wire, so you wont be messing with the actual O2 sensor wire. IIRC, Puppet did this when he extended his.


Is this @ Bandimere? That's a great time for that track, or any track > 5k.

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

That's a great idea! Mine just came in this week and I was looking to see the best way to deal with those wires. Would one have to splice the connector wires to get them longer or soldering them? Also, I know they sell connector components at autozone. Would one try this route as well? Not sure if the connectors are specific to our cars.

DeusExMaxima

iTrader: (1)

I totally agree. My dyno tune got the same kind of result - more power mid-range but not a huge peak gain. More usable power!

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Nice congrats on getting the headers. One thing, solder don't splice. GP

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

For you guys that got dyno tuned... do you need a piggy back (SAFC etc.)? Once the development of the R2C intake is finished, they will be suggesting some dynos in the area so they can get some more #rs. Would they be able to tune me without a piggy back?

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

You will need something to control the A/F ratios if you want a dyno tune. Probably not necessary for just an intake install.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Yeah... well I have a ton of other stuff... pretty much everything... lol

A dyno visit is still a little ways away... when a place is suggested to me, I guess I can give them a call and see what they say.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Ahhh good point, if you have a bunch of other mods, might as well finish it off with a dyno tune.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Yeah... if I have to invest in a piggy back... blah!

I'll just have to wait and see what these dyno shops have, as far as software...

Juiced SE-R

You will def need some sort of piggyback or if you wanna go utec or something like that you can, but you will need something to get that afr right or you will be missing out

slvrmax7

iTrader: (4)

Okay guys instead of starting a new thread, I'll just use this one. I called Brian yesterday to finally order the headers and it seems the wait, as of yesterday's order numbers, is going to be around 6-8 weeks. Just wanted to say to those that are planning on ordering these headers that now would be a great time to give Cattman a call and place the order. I know they are expensive, but for those that are planning on
doing this mod soon please keep in mind the sooner Cattman has you on their list the sooner the headers will be produced!!!!!!!! If we can get a few people to do this then we would benefit rather than waiting for random people to finally fill the required order number to start another production batch.

jay3250

iTrader: (1)

how do you know if these faulty precats have damaged your motor?

team suicidal 909

the reason ur cel is not on is because there is no o2 sensor after the third cat to monitor cat efficiensy

m_turner_02

iTrader: (3)

Ok, I am going to bump this old thread to add some new information.

When I installed these headers a while back I ran into the problem with my A/F sensors not being able to reach the bungs. I couldn't get enough slack out of the harness to reach so I attempted to extend my o2 sensor. Since then I have been throwing codes for both sensors for delayed circuit and a host of others. I looked around and purchased ngk 24320 sensors because they have a 24" pigtail which is more than enough slack to reach both bungs in the cattman headers and they are direct-fit plug-and-play.

just trying to pass along some info

Cattman

iTrader: (77)

The other tip we've learned to pass along is to never do anything to the O2 sensor pigtails - leave those wierd wires (shielded stainless or aluminum) intact and extend or splice to the "normal" copper wiring in the harness above the plug. Color coding is clearer in the wiring above the plug too. And, of course, all connections must be soldered.

Brian

m_turner_02

iTrader: (3)

yea, big mistake on my part lol. BUT, for those(like myself) who are not that great with a soldering iron and do not want to hack up their stock stuff, the ngk 24320 is an awesome substitute. Below are pics for comparison:





note how much longer they are than my oem sensors, which have been extended 6" already

Cattman

iTrader: (77)

I give customers that tip too - but suggest that it depends on how old their O2 sensors are. If there are, say, 80,000+ miles on the original sensors it makes sense to just replace them with the longer leads, but better to extend if they're fresh. We tell the 05+ Maxima guys to use the 350Z set; same sensor, longer wires.

No need for a soldering iron, use the soldering quick-connects. Short clear plastic tube with a blob of solder in the middle. Stick a wire in from each end and whack it with a heat gun. Melts solder, creates great circuit and shrink-wraps the plastic tube, all at the same time.

m_turner_02

iTrader: (3)

hmm, nice. do you have a link to said items?

mang03

iTrader: (1)

yes a link please!!!
i just got my cattman headers and i want to get everything i need or want before the install. buuuddy

VIP-DUB

nice deal

annimax

Sorry Brian but your quote is inaccurate. In my case I contacted you immediately after purchasing + professionally installing my complete Cattman exhaust 12/15/2008. I informed you in an email dated 4/13/2009 that I was getting a cel #1273 and that I could not pass Ohio's stringent inspection to no avail. You did provide me a vague troubleshooting list with possible solutions but I later discovered that I really need another part from you (the y pipe with retrofit cats for another +$200 - $250). This is after you practically guaranteed that the install would not cause a cel. ??

Cattman

iTrader: (77)

My friend, you really need to understand your car and its issues before coming on this forum and accusing me of saying something that isn't true. I provided detailed information (nothing vague about it - see the full reply at the end of this message and tell me how many other parts resellers would have taken the time to do the research and write a detailed reply!) on possible causes (none of them are specific to this header design) a year-and-a-half ago, its unfortunate that you haven't been able to pursue those effectively.

As I said long ago, code 1273 doesn't have anything to do with the cat in the y-pipe or the secondary sensors, or the design of the headers for that matter; that's an error code from the primary air/fuel sensor and it typically indicates that there's either an exhaust leak or the sensor is bad, but I provided this list of possible sources (see original message below) that was provided by one of the best Nissan Master Techs in the US:

- A/F sensor (or wires to it)
- A/F heater (or wires to it)
- Fuel pressure
- Fuel injectors
- Intake air leaks (filter that flows too freely can make the ECU think the engine’s running too lean)
- Exhaust leaks (very common)
- There is no technical info from Nissan to back it up, but there are indications that a faulty secondary sensor can cause the logic elements in the ECU to throw this code – seems to be a pattern of this occurring on 350Zs and perhaps other Nissans

The newer the Maxima, the trickier it can be to fool the ECU, but there's no excuse for not getting this straight on a 99/00 Cali-spec and all 01-04 Maximas, because both sensor relocation and O2 simulators are effective ways to trick the ECU into "thinking" that the pre-cats are still there. I never guarantee the results of someone else's service work, but there are hundreds of 99-03 Maximas out there that are running this setup without any problems.

Just so others can understand, here is the "vague" reply that I sent in April of 2009:

Andrew,

I’m sorry that you are not satisfied with your purchase, but based on all of the information I have, there is no inherent problem with the header design that would cause this to occur.

You refer to a pattern of errors, but the key is that many who have installed these have been driving down the road for months with no issues; if there’s a basic design flaw, they wouldn’t work properly on any vehicle. OTOH, those with CELs are experiencing a few different codes, all of which are attributable to installation or other equipment issues (a few followed protocols as you have, but most either do not have any understanding of what needs to be done, or they’re attempting solutions that don’t include a cat + dual O2 ports). It is not logical that the headers would work trouble-free on some cars and not others; it is more reasonable to assume that since there are several ways to install them imperfectly, the various engine codes relate to the installation or other parts.

Obviously I cannot provide a specific solution for a problem that has many possible causes, on a car that I’ve never seen. However, I am friends with one of the best Nissan Master Techs in the country, and didn’t want to respond to your email until he and I had a chance to discuss this code thoroughly, which we did this morning. He sees many possible sources for the very common P1273 code, but none of them would be associated with an individual exhaust part.

That code indicates a systemic lean A/F condition (absolutely NOT possible to associate it with the absence of pre-cats, so let’s eliminate the “expertise” at Midas, where there is no expertise of any kind). That code is very common on stock vehicles, and there are a good half dozen TSBs that are associated with it. When you Google that code, every example that comes up relates to exhaust leaks, not performance parts. According to Andrew (my mechanic friend), there are several possible sources, including but not necessarily limited to:

- A/F sensor (or wires to it)
- A/F heater (or wires to it)
- Fuel pressure
- Fuel injectors
- Intake air leaks (filter that flows too freely can make the ECU think the engine’s running too lean)
- Exhaust leaks (very common)
- There is no technical info from Nissan to back it up, but there are indications that a faulty secondary sensor can cause the logic elements in the ECU to throw this code – seems to be a pattern of this occurring on 350Zs and perhaps other Nissans

Andrew is helpful to the point that you are invited to call and speak with him directly a t 520.360.XXXX. Since he’s the lead mechanic at the largest Nissan dealer in Southern Arizona, he can’t always take the call so if you get the recording, leave a message indicating that you’re one of our customers, the part you’re referring to, and the year/model of car.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

annimax

**This post is indented to discard my last post as my CEL issue is solved.**

As Brian suggested I contacted Andrew Stewart Lead Mechanic at an Arizona Nissan dealer. He was extremely helpful and provided free support to my mechanic at Gearheads of Ohio in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio to whom I give many props for taking on this task. Andrew, (on his own time) lead them in the correct direction and they were able to complete the task. I again would like to express my deep gratitude to BRIAN, ANDREW and GEARHEADS of OHIO http://gearheadsohio.com/ for their time, patience, support and in the case of Gearheads their effort. Brian makes a great product case closed. Finally, I phoned Brian and expressed (at time time of the initial post and again today) that my post was not designed to slight his product but to show my frustration. He understood and was not offended at all

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

A dual O2 simulator would've cured all this.......