Nitrogen vs. Compressed air
01-24-2009, 03:25 AM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St Petersburg,FL
Posts: 92
Nitrogen vs. Compressed air
Hey Guys I did a search but i couldnt find any threads about whats best Nitogen or Compressed air. I used compressed air in the GoodYear OEM RSA's for the first 2 years and I had pressure fluctuation greatly because here in Florida we have very hot days then moderate nights in the summer. I would find that my tire pressure with the RSA's would swing 3 pounds from day to night with compressed air.
I had my tires replaced in Jan 08 and I went with the GoodYear Carbon fiber tire and had Nitro put in them and the tire pressure moved 1 pound from night and day. Put here's my problem there are not alot of shop who have nitro and if I have to top off all four tires; it cost a small fee to do so. The tires seem to handle stiffer or then again it could be the carbon fiber tires that handle different than the RSA's.
Thanks
I had my tires replaced in Jan 08 and I went with the GoodYear Carbon fiber tire and had Nitro put in them and the tire pressure moved 1 pound from night and day. Put here's my problem there are not alot of shop who have nitro and if I have to top off all four tires; it cost a small fee to do so. The tires seem to handle stiffer or then again it could be the carbon fiber tires that handle different than the RSA's.
Thanks
01-24-2009, 06:38 AM
#3
omfg.
just google it.
oh and you're paying for air...heh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...instead-of-air
February 16, 2007
Dear Cecil:
I caught a segment on some car show about modding up your car. One of the things they mentioned was the benefit of filling your tires with nitrogen instead of air. Considering I fill my tires with air and don't have much of a problem constantly refilling them, what is the straight dope on nitrogen in car tires?
— Dave from Massachusetts
Oh, there are plenty of benefits: (1) Cool fluorescent green valve stem caps (assuming your nitrogen vendor has any marketing savvy), which will look sharp with your spinning wheel covers. (2) Bragging rights. OK, you were behind the curve with cell phones, iPods, thong underwear, etc. Nitrogen in tires is relatively new to the mass market. Now's your chance. (3) Reduced fire danger next time you land your space shuttle or commercial aircraft, and tell me you won't sleep better knowing that.
Most tires are filled with compressed air, which when dry consists of about 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen, and 1 percent other gases by volume. Water vapor (humidity) can make up as much as 5 percent of the volume of air under worst-case conditions. Filling your tires with nitrogen mainly does two things: it eliminates moisture, and it replaces skinny oxygen molecules with fat nitrogen molecules, reducing the rate at which compressed gas diffuses through porous tire walls. That means, theoretically at least, that a tire filled with nitrogen retains optimal pressure longer, leading to more uniform tire wear and better gas mileage. The commonly quoted figure is that tires inflated to 32 psi get 3 percent better mileage than at 24 psi.
Does nitrogen make any practical difference? You couldn't prove it by me. I found no scientific tests showing that nitrogen-filled tires stayed inflated longer than average under normal conditions. A car-buff buddy was sure it worked but conceded he had only anecdotal evidence that it did.
As for moisture, changes in humidity affect tire performance two ways. First, the density of humid air fluctuates more with temperature than that of dry air, so removing humidity can keep your tire pressure more consistent, especially when the temperature climbs over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. That may be a legitimate concern in Formula One racing, but it's not much of an issue if you're just tooling around town.
Humidity can also be a factor in wheel maintenance - since pure nitrogen doesn't have moisture in it, supposedly your wheels won't rust as quickly, which could lead to improved wheel performance and air sealing. The question is, how big a problem is wheel rust these days? According to a few tire and wheel shops we contacted, not very. Seriously rusted wheels are uncommon in typical steel-wheeled cars, and many high-performance cars have alloy wheels that don't rust at all. One exception is work vehicles such as dump trucks, which are exposed to a much harsher environment.
Another claim I've seen is that since nitrogen is slightly lighter than air, you'll save weight and get better performance. However, we're talking about a weight difference of less than 4 percent of the gas in the tire - in other words, a difference of less than an ounce for most vehicles. A possibly more realistic benefit is that nitrogen is largely inert chemically at low (i.e., normal) temperatures, so it won't attack the rubber in your tires like oxygen does. Oxygen attack is something both the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Ford Research have studied, and can be a problem for tires used for a long time or in rough conditions.
More important, nitrogen doesn't support combustion, which is one reason aircraft and the space shuttle use nitrogen in their tires. The wisdom of this precaution was brought home by the crash of Mexicana Airlines flight 940 on March 31, 1986. Shortly after the Boeing 727 took off from Mexico City en route to Puerto Vallarta, an overheated landing-gear brake caused a tire improperly filled with air instead of nitrogen to overheat as well and explode, rupturing fuel and hydraulic lines. The ensuing fire and crash killed 167 passengers and crew. However, unless your driving habits are of the X-treme variety, the chances of your tires catching fire anytime soon are slim.
Overall, filling up with nitrogen won't hurt and may provide some minimal benefit. Is it worth it? If you go to some place like Costco that does it for free with new tires, sure, why not? Elsewhere, though, I've seen prices quoted as high as $10 per tire, which is way more than I'd pay. Rather than shell out for nitrogen, you'd be better off just checking and adjusting your tire pressure regularly, something the NHTSA says less than 60 percent of U.S. motorists actually do.
— Cecil Adams
OMFG on another note! carbon fiber@?@?@?@? on tires?!@?@!@?!@? omfg i ammm sooo getting these. i'll be the **** of the walk baby!
Deus is going to be jealous of somebody!!!!!
edit: encase i didn't make myself clear this is worthless, and a rip off.
just google it.
oh and you're paying for air...heh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...instead-of-air
February 16, 2007
Dear Cecil:
I caught a segment on some car show about modding up your car. One of the things they mentioned was the benefit of filling your tires with nitrogen instead of air. Considering I fill my tires with air and don't have much of a problem constantly refilling them, what is the straight dope on nitrogen in car tires?
— Dave from Massachusetts
Oh, there are plenty of benefits: (1) Cool fluorescent green valve stem caps (assuming your nitrogen vendor has any marketing savvy), which will look sharp with your spinning wheel covers. (2) Bragging rights. OK, you were behind the curve with cell phones, iPods, thong underwear, etc. Nitrogen in tires is relatively new to the mass market. Now's your chance. (3) Reduced fire danger next time you land your space shuttle or commercial aircraft, and tell me you won't sleep better knowing that.
Most tires are filled with compressed air, which when dry consists of about 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen, and 1 percent other gases by volume. Water vapor (humidity) can make up as much as 5 percent of the volume of air under worst-case conditions. Filling your tires with nitrogen mainly does two things: it eliminates moisture, and it replaces skinny oxygen molecules with fat nitrogen molecules, reducing the rate at which compressed gas diffuses through porous tire walls. That means, theoretically at least, that a tire filled with nitrogen retains optimal pressure longer, leading to more uniform tire wear and better gas mileage. The commonly quoted figure is that tires inflated to 32 psi get 3 percent better mileage than at 24 psi.
Does nitrogen make any practical difference? You couldn't prove it by me. I found no scientific tests showing that nitrogen-filled tires stayed inflated longer than average under normal conditions. A car-buff buddy was sure it worked but conceded he had only anecdotal evidence that it did.
As for moisture, changes in humidity affect tire performance two ways. First, the density of humid air fluctuates more with temperature than that of dry air, so removing humidity can keep your tire pressure more consistent, especially when the temperature climbs over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. That may be a legitimate concern in Formula One racing, but it's not much of an issue if you're just tooling around town.
Humidity can also be a factor in wheel maintenance - since pure nitrogen doesn't have moisture in it, supposedly your wheels won't rust as quickly, which could lead to improved wheel performance and air sealing. The question is, how big a problem is wheel rust these days? According to a few tire and wheel shops we contacted, not very. Seriously rusted wheels are uncommon in typical steel-wheeled cars, and many high-performance cars have alloy wheels that don't rust at all. One exception is work vehicles such as dump trucks, which are exposed to a much harsher environment.
Another claim I've seen is that since nitrogen is slightly lighter than air, you'll save weight and get better performance. However, we're talking about a weight difference of less than 4 percent of the gas in the tire - in other words, a difference of less than an ounce for most vehicles. A possibly more realistic benefit is that nitrogen is largely inert chemically at low (i.e., normal) temperatures, so it won't attack the rubber in your tires like oxygen does. Oxygen attack is something both the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Ford Research have studied, and can be a problem for tires used for a long time or in rough conditions.
More important, nitrogen doesn't support combustion, which is one reason aircraft and the space shuttle use nitrogen in their tires. The wisdom of this precaution was brought home by the crash of Mexicana Airlines flight 940 on March 31, 1986. Shortly after the Boeing 727 took off from Mexico City en route to Puerto Vallarta, an overheated landing-gear brake caused a tire improperly filled with air instead of nitrogen to overheat as well and explode, rupturing fuel and hydraulic lines. The ensuing fire and crash killed 167 passengers and crew. However, unless your driving habits are of the X-treme variety, the chances of your tires catching fire anytime soon are slim.
Overall, filling up with nitrogen won't hurt and may provide some minimal benefit. Is it worth it? If you go to some place like Costco that does it for free with new tires, sure, why not? Elsewhere, though, I've seen prices quoted as high as $10 per tire, which is way more than I'd pay. Rather than shell out for nitrogen, you'd be better off just checking and adjusting your tire pressure regularly, something the NHTSA says less than 60 percent of U.S. motorists actually do.
— Cecil Adams
OMFG on another note! carbon fiber@?@?@?@? on tires?!@?@!@?!@? omfg i ammm sooo getting these. i'll be the **** of the walk baby!
Deus is going to be jealous of somebody!!!!!
edit: encase i didn't make myself clear this is worthless, and a rip off.
Last edited by Torgus; 01-24-2009 at 11:53 AM.
01-24-2009, 10:50 AM
#4
The benefits do not outweigh the aggrivation of trying to find a tire repair shop with nitrogen to fill a tire. I have both and trust me I need nitro in my tires on the Explodition and don't plan on getting them filled till I take the 20+ mile trip to Costco. PITA.... I also tried to get my tires filled with regular air at Firestone they told me to pack sand, I have a green fill cap, and to go to Costco. My opinion stick with Air, they have used it since they invented the inflatable tire and it has worked quite well since. If I had 32's with paper thin tires then maybe I would concider Nitro so I would keep from getting a run flat.
01-24-2009, 03:57 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 539
take a deep breath....feel that? that was just 75 percent nitrogen you just inhaled. do you really think another 25 percent is going to make a difference in daily street driving? they use nitrogen in race cars because it the expansion is not as great as temperatures rise in the tire. therefore making tire behavior on the track more predictable. its a total crock of $%!@ don't buy into it.
01-25-2009, 05:17 PM
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St Petersburg,FL
Posts: 92
Thanks for the response guys, except for the idiot who has to mouth off and try to belittle people who ask a general question. If I was an expert on the matter I wouldnt have asked the question. Oh by the way you have a 5th gen get off the 6th gen board. Dont need negative people on the board.
01-25-2009, 05:36 PM
#7
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Shore MA.
Posts: 46
More important, nitrogen doesn't support combustion, which is one reason aircraft "and the space shuttle use nitrogen in their tires. The wisdom of this precaution was brought home by the crash of Mexicana Airlines flight 940 on March 31, 1986. Shortly after the Boeing 727 took off from Mexico City en route to Puerto Vallarta, an overheated landing-gear brake caused a tire improperly filled with air instead of nitrogen to overheat as well and explode, rupturing fuel and hydraulic lines. The ensuing fire and crash killed 167 passengers and crew. "
Also, Being an ex-Aviation Mechanic, when an Aircraft Takes off from Boston in the winter with "air" in the tires and attempts to land in Cancun, the Tires Could expand and,whoops, Not come out or be damaged when coming out of the wheel wells when the landing gear is extended.
not that anyone needed to Know this, it's just some FYI.
Also, Being an ex-Aviation Mechanic, when an Aircraft Takes off from Boston in the winter with "air" in the tires and attempts to land in Cancun, the Tires Could expand and,whoops, Not come out or be damaged when coming out of the wheel wells when the landing gear is extended.
not that anyone needed to Know this, it's just some FYI.
01-26-2009, 02:41 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 535
i noticed, that the tire pressure does not fluctuate AS MUCH maybe 1 to 2 psi vs 5-10 psi in air...i only have it cause my dealer put it in stock and theres a shop that tops off for free... but if you have to pay for it...there is no NOTICEABLE difference..to me anyway...
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