HID/Headlight/Foglight combo thread.
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 158
I'm going to order a kit with a regular ballast and new bulbs. I'll install the new kit, and try it out for a while. If the new kit works and the old one with the digital slims doesn't then I'll ask for my money back on the digital slim kit!
What're some good sites to buy a kit from?
Thanks!
What're some good sites to buy a kit from?
Thanks!
I'm *knock on wood* 3-for-3 from DDMtuning.com
Just got my 4th in the mail, time to make sure if it works.
Their prices are good, shipping time is kinda slow though depending on when you order it (they run out of stock a lot)
Just got my 4th in the mail, time to make sure if it works.
Their prices are good, shipping time is kinda slow though depending on when you order it (they run out of stock a lot)
I've been running a 35 watt, 5000k, DDMtuning slim kit for the past 2 months in my headlights---so far, so good (fingers crossed). Shipping was a little slow and the kit was not PNP, but you can't beat the prices.
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 158
I just bought a DDM Tuning 55W digital slim kit.
The company I bought my first digital kit from won't send me a replacement bulbs. They offered to sell me a set of bulbs priced at $50 with a $10 discount for $40 total...
I'll buy a set of bulbs sooner or later from DDM tuning for 15 bucks and have two HID sets.
The company I bought my first digital kit from won't send me a replacement bulbs. They offered to sell me a set of bulbs priced at $50 with a $10 discount for $40 total...
I'll buy a set of bulbs sooner or later from DDM tuning for 15 bucks and have two HID sets.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 780
From: Orlando, FL
I just bought a DDM Tuning 55W digital slim kit.
The company I bought my first digital kit from won't send me a replacement bulbs. They offered to sell me a set of bulbs priced at $50 with a $10 discount for $40 total...
I'll buy a set of bulbs sooner or later from DDM tuning for 15 bucks and have two HID sets.
The company I bought my first digital kit from won't send me a replacement bulbs. They offered to sell me a set of bulbs priced at $50 with a $10 discount for $40 total...
I'll buy a set of bulbs sooner or later from DDM tuning for 15 bucks and have two HID sets.
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 297
From: CT
Here are mine
kryptonlighting77-Current on lows full set up and bulbs for fogs
turelyyours-Purchased full kits and currently using ballast on fogs(no longer selling on ebay under name)
The higher currents make the Sodium (orange) light compose a higher portion of the output, so many people note a 'warmer' color when using 55w ballasts instead of 35w ballasts, given the same bulb.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 780
From: Orlando, FL
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 780
From: Orlando, FL
There is a very nice shelf just perfect for mounting the ballasts right near the bulbs and behind the wheel liner.
For HIDs to be legal, they must be factory equipped, or using all factory equipment.
For instance, if you got the base model halogen projector 7th gen, and put a H11 HID kit in it, it would be illegal.
If you had the premium model HID projector 7th gen, and replaced the ballasts, or replaced the bulbs with aftermarket (anything besides Philips, Osram, or GE), it would be illegal.
If you had the base model halogen 7th gen, and replaced the entire headlights with complete assemblies out of a HID 7th gen, you would be OK.
If you put HIDs in the foglights on ANY 7th gen, it would be illegal, as all of them come with halogen foglights.
However, there is a grey area. For instance, a cop is not gonna be able to tell the difference between HIDs in halogen projectors and HIDs in HID projectors, assuming you don't get some ridiculous blue or purple color.
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 158
nalc,
as far as I can tell, the projector lenses on the 7th gen are all the same across the model lineup.
I've replaced my halogens in my SV with an HID kit and get a VERY clear and distinct light cut-off line just as a factory equipped car would.
the illegality comes in when there is not cut-off. Some cars I see rolling around like a Jetta near where I live have replaced the reflector headlights with aftermarket projector units with HIDs. They spray light ALL over the place and EASILY blind you coming down the road.
I'm gonna flip through the factory service manual when I get a chance and see if the headlight housings are the same parts across the platforms to be sure.
as far as being written up for having HID's, the cop would have to prove a lot for the headlights (I'd lay money on a cop NOT knowing what cars do and don't come factory equipped with HID's). The fogs would be easy as I don't believe ANY vehicle in North America comes equipped with HID's in the fogs from the factory.
In summary, it's VERY easy for me to tell an aftermarket setup. If you are blinded at all angles by the headlights or they are blue/purple, then they're aftermarket and meant for "off-road" use only!
as far as I can tell, the projector lenses on the 7th gen are all the same across the model lineup.
I've replaced my halogens in my SV with an HID kit and get a VERY clear and distinct light cut-off line just as a factory equipped car would.
the illegality comes in when there is not cut-off. Some cars I see rolling around like a Jetta near where I live have replaced the reflector headlights with aftermarket projector units with HIDs. They spray light ALL over the place and EASILY blind you coming down the road.
I'm gonna flip through the factory service manual when I get a chance and see if the headlight housings are the same parts across the platforms to be sure.
as far as being written up for having HID's, the cop would have to prove a lot for the headlights (I'd lay money on a cop NOT knowing what cars do and don't come factory equipped with HID's). The fogs would be easy as I don't believe ANY vehicle in North America comes equipped with HID's in the fogs from the factory.
In summary, it's VERY easy for me to tell an aftermarket setup. If you are blinded at all angles by the headlights or they are blue/purple, then they're aftermarket and meant for "off-road" use only!
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 297
From: CT
Have you ever had a 7th gen behind you with OEM hid's? They look as if your getting high beemed. The aftermarket set up in the max is unique because they all use frosted projector lenses, this addes a blurr to any color you put in there and therefore make it appear to be factory. I agree with you on the fogs since I have them they a easy to spot but with MB,Audi,BMW adding led's to the fog light area its going to be the norm to see hid's in the fogs in the next few (2) years.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 424
From: Central N.J.
I have a 2010 with oem hid's but i want to change the stock bulbs to the brightest white i can find that the stock ballats will hold.I dont want to swap out the ballasts and get a complete 55w kit but If someone can show me the brightest white stock replacement hid bulbs that would be great.? and maybe a fog lght hid kit to match?ebay can be a hit or miss so i wanted to see who you guys have had success with and which type to get?thanks in advance.
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 297
From: CT
I have a 2010 with oem hid's but i want to change the stock bulbs to the brightest white i can find that the stock ballats will hold.I dont want to swap out the ballasts and get a complete 55w kit but If someone can show me the brightest white stock replacement hid bulbs that would be great.? and maybe a fog lght hid kit to match?ebay can be a hit or miss so i wanted to see who you guys have had success with and which type to get?thanks in advance.
Just read a few post back. I always use 6000k. There are also some seller names on ebay a few post. For the fogs go with a 35w kit. I recently replaced some bulbs in my honda a noticed that one bulb 6k had a blue strip on it and the other side a 6k had a brownish line it. The onw with the brownish line gave me the brightest white vs the blue line. Just start from the first post and work your way here by that time you will have already made a decision and completed a order.
nalc,
as far as I can tell, the projector lenses on the 7th gen are all the same across the model lineup.
I've replaced my halogens in my SV with an HID kit and get a VERY clear and distinct light cut-off line just as a factory equipped car would.
the illegality comes in when there is not cut-off. Some cars I see rolling around like a Jetta near where I live have replaced the reflector headlights with aftermarket projector units with HIDs. They spray light ALL over the place and EASILY blind you coming down the road.
I'm gonna flip through the factory service manual when I get a chance and see if the headlight housings are the same parts across the platforms to be sure.
as far as being written up for having HID's, the cop would have to prove a lot for the headlights (I'd lay money on a cop NOT knowing what cars do and don't come factory equipped with HID's). The fogs would be easy as I don't believe ANY vehicle in North America comes equipped with HID's in the fogs from the factory.
In summary, it's VERY easy for me to tell an aftermarket setup. If you are blinded at all angles by the headlights or they are blue/purple, then they're aftermarket and meant for "off-road" use only!
as far as I can tell, the projector lenses on the 7th gen are all the same across the model lineup.
I've replaced my halogens in my SV with an HID kit and get a VERY clear and distinct light cut-off line just as a factory equipped car would.
the illegality comes in when there is not cut-off. Some cars I see rolling around like a Jetta near where I live have replaced the reflector headlights with aftermarket projector units with HIDs. They spray light ALL over the place and EASILY blind you coming down the road.
I'm gonna flip through the factory service manual when I get a chance and see if the headlight housings are the same parts across the platforms to be sure.
as far as being written up for having HID's, the cop would have to prove a lot for the headlights (I'd lay money on a cop NOT knowing what cars do and don't come factory equipped with HID's). The fogs would be easy as I don't believe ANY vehicle in North America comes equipped with HID's in the fogs from the factory.
In summary, it's VERY easy for me to tell an aftermarket setup. If you are blinded at all angles by the headlights or they are blue/purple, then they're aftermarket and meant for "off-road" use only!
DOT specificies minimum and maximum intensities at different points in the beam. For HIDs to comply, they have to spread the light out wide. That's why they use projectors. The light is evenly bright to the sides.
With Halogens, there is less light, so the light is more focused to the center of the beam, where it is the most important.
It's a minor difference, and it WILL NOT affect the cutoff, just the distribution of the light under it.
Or do you think they're just a second set of low-beams to make your car look "exclusive" compared to those chumps who bought the no-fogs base model, and a place to have "6000K top and bottom" HIDs.
The reason HIDs aren't used in foglights is because they don't work well for that purpose. Foglights are meant to have a yellowish blob of light right in front of the car, so when it is foggy you can see the lane markers and the edge of the road while going slower than normal speeds.
If it's clear out, they are useless. If it's raining, they are useless. If it's snowing, they are useless. The only time they should be used is if it is actually foggy.
HID lights are whiter and have a significantly larger blue component, which has a higher tendency to backscatter from the fog and cause glare to you. Since the light is so close to the car, it doesn't have to be as bright, so there is no purpose for a HID fog.
The ideal fog light is either a yellowish-white clear halogen bulb, or a selective yellow halogen bulb.
We might see LED foglights, but I would predict that there will never be an OEM HID foglight, for the reasons I listed above.
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 297
From: CT
Completely false. Do you understand the purpose of foglights at all?
Yes!
Or do you think they're just a second set of low-beams to make your car look "exclusive" compared to those chumps who bought the no-fogs base model, and a place to have "6000K top and bottom" HIDs.
Yes I do like a place to but a second pair of 6000k bulbs. (Aimed 5 degrees down) Yes I do like being "exclusive". No, they are not chumps they are cost contious.
The reason HIDs aren't used in foglights is because they don't work well for that purpose. Foglights are meant to have a yellowish blob of light right in front of the car, so when it is foggy you can see the lane markers and the edge of the road while going slower than normal speeds.
"Quote"
"an article from the Journal of
Scientific Instruments published in October 1938 (Vol. XV, pp. 317-322).
The article is by J. H. Nelson and is entitled "Optics of headlights". The penultimate section in this paper is on "fog lamps". Nelson notes that "there is almost complete agreement among designers of fog lamps, and this agreement is in most cases extended to the colour of the light to be used.Although there are still many lamps on the road using yellow light, it seems to be becoming recognized that there is no filter, which, when placed in front of a lamp, will improve the penetration power of that lamp."
If it's clear out, they are useless. If it's raining, they are useless. If it's snowing, they are useless. The only time they should be used is if it is actually foggy.
Or when it looks cool to the owner and does not cause harm to others.
HID lights are whiter and have a significantly larger blue component, which has a higher tendency to backscatter from the fog and cause glare to you. Since the light is so close to the car, it doesn't have to be as bright, so there is no purpose for a HID fog.
Have you ever had a 7th gen max behind you with factory HID's? Blue and yellow light at every bump.
The ideal fog light is either a yellowish-white clear halogen bulb, or a selective yellow halogen bulb.
Personal choice if its not going to be used as desgined it doesn't matter.
We might see LED foglights, but I would predict that there will never be an OEM HID foglight, for the reasons I listed above.
Yes!
Or do you think they're just a second set of low-beams to make your car look "exclusive" compared to those chumps who bought the no-fogs base model, and a place to have "6000K top and bottom" HIDs.
Yes I do like a place to but a second pair of 6000k bulbs. (Aimed 5 degrees down) Yes I do like being "exclusive". No, they are not chumps they are cost contious.
The reason HIDs aren't used in foglights is because they don't work well for that purpose. Foglights are meant to have a yellowish blob of light right in front of the car, so when it is foggy you can see the lane markers and the edge of the road while going slower than normal speeds.
"Quote"
"an article from the Journal of
Scientific Instruments published in October 1938 (Vol. XV, pp. 317-322).
The article is by J. H. Nelson and is entitled "Optics of headlights". The penultimate section in this paper is on "fog lamps". Nelson notes that "there is almost complete agreement among designers of fog lamps, and this agreement is in most cases extended to the colour of the light to be used.Although there are still many lamps on the road using yellow light, it seems to be becoming recognized that there is no filter, which, when placed in front of a lamp, will improve the penetration power of that lamp."
If it's clear out, they are useless. If it's raining, they are useless. If it's snowing, they are useless. The only time they should be used is if it is actually foggy.
Or when it looks cool to the owner and does not cause harm to others.
HID lights are whiter and have a significantly larger blue component, which has a higher tendency to backscatter from the fog and cause glare to you. Since the light is so close to the car, it doesn't have to be as bright, so there is no purpose for a HID fog.
Have you ever had a 7th gen max behind you with factory HID's? Blue and yellow light at every bump.
The ideal fog light is either a yellowish-white clear halogen bulb, or a selective yellow halogen bulb.
Personal choice if its not going to be used as desgined it doesn't matter.
We might see LED foglights, but I would predict that there will never be an OEM HID foglight, for the reasons I listed above.
I feel better now. So I will also let everyone know I am not being a jerk or insensitive, I am just being me.
Last edited by IH8SPM; Jul 10, 2010 at 08:20 PM.
(6000k heads & 3000k fogs aimed low)
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 297
From: CT
You want to get technical?
There's a phenomenon known as chromatic dispersion occuring in the lens of the projector. It is a property of the glass itself.
That's why, when there is the sharp cutoff with factory projectors, it can look blue or purple - the lens is refracting that light slightly differently because of chromatic dispersion.
Over a bumpy road, the cutoff of the projectors will shine in your rearview mirror after the driver hits a bump, so that is why it flickers.
Yellow filtering doesn't improve penetration power. Filtering, by nature, removes light, it doesn't add light. What selective yellow does is remove the blue light, which the eye does not effectively use for seeing with, and which can cause backscatter in fog.
But the bigger reason they aren't used as foglights is that they are simply too bright. There isn't an implementation of HIDs in fogs that meets the legal requirements. HIDs are great for the lowbeams or highbeams where you need lots of distance and width, but fogs are only meant to shine right in front of the car so you can see road markings in fog. If they are too bright, then it will all reflect back at you and reduce your night vision.
There's a phenomenon known as chromatic dispersion occuring in the lens of the projector. It is a property of the glass itself.
That's why, when there is the sharp cutoff with factory projectors, it can look blue or purple - the lens is refracting that light slightly differently because of chromatic dispersion.
Over a bumpy road, the cutoff of the projectors will shine in your rearview mirror after the driver hits a bump, so that is why it flickers.
Yellow filtering doesn't improve penetration power. Filtering, by nature, removes light, it doesn't add light. What selective yellow does is remove the blue light, which the eye does not effectively use for seeing with, and which can cause backscatter in fog.
But the bigger reason they aren't used as foglights is that they are simply too bright. There isn't an implementation of HIDs in fogs that meets the legal requirements. HIDs are great for the lowbeams or highbeams where you need lots of distance and width, but fogs are only meant to shine right in front of the car so you can see road markings in fog. If they are too bright, then it will all reflect back at you and reduce your night vision.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 424
From: Central N.J.
I got the D2S bulbs in 10k and the H11 kit for my fogs toady aslso in 10k from a friend who has a hid importing business and put them in today.It was super easy like I thought and he says they should shine mostly white with a tint of blue.Its daylight still so I cant see it tottaly but it looks like he said.But I may just swap them out for pure white as that is more my taste.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 780
From: Orlando, FL
I got the D2S bulbs in 10k and the H11 kit for my fogs toady aslso in 10k from a friend who has a hid importing business and put them in today.It was super easy like I thought and he says they should shine mostly white with a tint of blue.Its daylight still so I cant see it tottaly but it looks like he said.But I may just swap them out for pure white as that is more my taste.
what I've heard from people who sell HID kits is as follows
There is almost no quality control with aftermarket HIDs. we all know that.
When they make bulbs, they do not have one production line that makes 6000k, one production line that makes just 8000k, etc. They make bulbs that are all different colors, because there isn't consistency.
Then, they take all of the bulbs, and light them up.
They look at the color, and divide them into different ranges, based off of a visual inspection.
You can do a photometric test on a philips bulb labelled 4300k, and it will come out as 4300k. You can do that same test on an aftermarket bulb labelled 8000k, and it won't be 8000k. It will be any number above 6000k and below 10000k. So you might have 6500k bulbs sold as 8000k, whereas someone else might have 6500k bulbs that were sold as 6000k, based off of when the factory made them and what the inspector thought.
There is almost no quality control with aftermarket HIDs. we all know that.
When they make bulbs, they do not have one production line that makes 6000k, one production line that makes just 8000k, etc. They make bulbs that are all different colors, because there isn't consistency.
Then, they take all of the bulbs, and light them up.
They look at the color, and divide them into different ranges, based off of a visual inspection.
You can do a photometric test on a philips bulb labelled 4300k, and it will come out as 4300k. You can do that same test on an aftermarket bulb labelled 8000k, and it won't be 8000k. It will be any number above 6000k and below 10000k. So you might have 6500k bulbs sold as 8000k, whereas someone else might have 6500k bulbs that were sold as 6000k, based off of when the factory made them and what the inspector thought.
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 158
I found something that could interest a few on this thread. There was a discussion a while back pertaining to power handling capability of the factory wiring harness. This was an issue with some when they were changing out their halogens to HID's. It was argued that the "inrush" current when the HID's started could overwhelm the factory wiring somehow and cause a fire. Well, I was reading through the factory service manuals and found out that the halogen bulbs are running at 55 watts where as the HID's are running at 35 watts. It would make sense, then, to assume that if the halogens are pulling more power continuously, then the wiring would be capable of supporting the HID's.
Also, I remeber some feelings that the fog housings were only good for 35 watts. Well, those bulbs are running at 55W as well according to the factory service manuals.
nalc, I guess we can agree that a cop would have a lot to prove if he/she ticketed a maxima owner for having aftermarket HID's assuming the color wasn't obviously blue and ballasts weren't obviously visible under the hood?
Also, I remeber some feelings that the fog housings were only good for 35 watts. Well, those bulbs are running at 55W as well according to the factory service manuals.
nalc, I guess we can agree that a cop would have a lot to prove if he/she ticketed a maxima owner for having aftermarket HID's assuming the color wasn't obviously blue and ballasts weren't obviously visible under the hood?
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 780
From: Orlando, FL
I found something that could interest a few on this thread. There was a discussion a while back pertaining to power handling capability of the factory wiring harness. This was an issue with some when they were changing out their halogens to HID's. It was argued that the "inrush" current when the HID's started could overwhelm the factory wiring somehow and cause a fire. Well, I was reading through the factory service manuals and found out that the halogen bulbs are running at 55 watts where as the HID's are running at 35 watts. It would make sense, then, to assume that if the halogens are pulling more power continuously, then the wiring would be capable of supporting the HID's.
Also, I remeber some feelings that the fog housings were only good for 35 watts. Well, those bulbs are running at 55W as well according to the factory service manuals.
nalc, I guess we can agree that a cop would have a lot to prove if he/she ticketed a maxima owner for having aftermarket HID's assuming the color wasn't obviously blue and ballasts weren't obviously visible under the hood?
Also, I remeber some feelings that the fog housings were only good for 35 watts. Well, those bulbs are running at 55W as well according to the factory service manuals.
nalc, I guess we can agree that a cop would have a lot to prove if he/she ticketed a maxima owner for having aftermarket HID's assuming the color wasn't obviously blue and ballasts weren't obviously visible under the hood?
Also remember that we we discussing inrush and the 55watts and the 35 watts are RMS levels, not inrush. The ballast will pull higher amps to fire the HID up before leveling out at the 35 watt.
As far as heat goes, an HID buld of the same wattage will put off more heat than the hallogen just as a 55 watt heating element will put off more heat than a 55 watt HID bulb. When compairing two different things you can't decide which puts off more heat just by how many watts it runs RMS.
Last edited by Flip2cho; Jul 12, 2010 at 11:50 AM.
Exactly. And, with the 7th gen being a PITA to access the bulbs (either the inner fender liner or dropping the bumper or something crazy), they're not going to bother checking.
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 158
PITA is putting it rather lightly. Can you imagine going to the dealer to change out a headlight bulb as the manual suggests?
Dealer: Well, the problem was definitely the bulb.
Customer: Ok, great. How much is the damage.
Dealer: That'll be $7.00 for parts and $95 for labor
Dealer: Well, the problem was definitely the bulb.
Customer: Ok, great. How much is the damage.
Dealer: That'll be $7.00 for parts and $95 for labor
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3
I received my kit today from carid.com. Excellent service and I got mine within two days of ordering. Now speaking of PITA, that was the biggest one ever. Especially mounting the ballast on the driver's side, I had to put it on the inside fender of the car (anyone see something wrong with this?) So it took like 4 hours to mount the ballast and install the headlight to make sure that it worked fine. It was well worth the labor though in the end.
I received my kit today from carid.com. Excellent service and I got mine within two days of ordering. Now speaking of PITA, that was the biggest one ever. Especially mounting the ballast on the driver's side, I had to put it on the inside fender of the car (anyone see something wrong with this?) So it took like 4 hours to mount the ballast and install the headlight to make sure that it worked fine. It was well worth the labor though in the end.
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3
I really was taking my time making sure the connections were fine. I wanted to do it right instead of quick, plus the fact I never did it before so it was a new experience especially going behind the wheel well, boy it was a PITA. thanks!
I don't know about cheap. I've learned in my years, if you want quality, you pay. I got mine from Xenith Xenons: http://www.xenithxenons.com/category_s/14.htm and they cost ~$100 a pair
I think it looks great, though I know it is illegal (HIDs not contained in projectors). I did lower the alignment a lot to help with not drawing attention.
Link to more pics: http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q...%20HID%20fogs/
3000k fogs, 6000k headlights
I think it looks great, though I know it is illegal (HIDs not contained in projectors). I did lower the alignment a lot to help with not drawing attention.
Link to more pics: http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q...%20HID%20fogs/
3000k fogs, 6000k headlights
If it came from the factory with HIDs, it is legal to install DOT-compliant HID equipment. If it came from the factory with halogen, it is illegal to install HIDs in it. It's that simple. It doesn't matter if they are projectors or reflectors. Some cars have halogen reflectors, some cars have HID reflectors, some cars have halogen projectors, and some cars have HID projectors. All of these are legal, as long as you put the correct type of bulb in, and use a DOT-compliant bulb.
