Doesn't make sense to me. I'd never consider purchasing a product like that I couldn't see first. Part of the reason I didn't go that route.

 

Then what is it??

BTW. Not to bash, but you can't tell jack from the pictures you provided. If you took some like the dude w/ the custom job did, fine. But the ones you provided are vague, dark, blurry. If someone close to you was willing to take some nice digital pics of your system, would you be willing?

 

I guess it's all about some of the tricks these guys used to get the turbo working.

 

It's alot of $ to spend on a system sight unseen, but I would [i]guess[/] that if he knew you were serious, he would provide more information.

I mean there's only so many ways to do a system on 4-5th gen.

 

One would hope...but if they'll show pictures to interested buyers, why not everyone? Anyone could fake interest in a product, especially one that popular.

 

Well yeah. I don't know how he deals with his sales.

 

since i'm at home bored...i mite as well put in my worthless 2 cents...this is wat i think...no beef against anyone here...but human by nature are selfish beast...i think it flows both way for seller and customer...seller more then likely do not want their product copied and then get low-balled...customer in this situation car enthusiast if u want to call it that...want their car to be unique and be one of the few...and it they would shiet in their pants if they posted pix of all the plumbing and someone bopped it and sold it for less while they pay wat they paid...then that would turn around and have more turbo max and their car would just be another...

 

Anyone has the right to take pictures at meets... it's just we are not going to post pictures of the piping with car on jackstands (or of the setup all laid out). Both Jeff's clearly explained why we don't post pictures.

If you guys are judging PFI's kit from Roadbeast's pictures...

 

He was just stupid for posting those pics for any reason.

 

I understand their points. However, one of the major reasons I didn't end up with a turbo kit was this drastic lack of pictures and documentation out there. If I knew how it should be installed, and could go through the install in my head (as I did severl times with the SC instructions), I would have considered the turbo kit a lot more.

I would think they're risking loosing more from lost customers than they're gaining by limiting competition.

Of course, I could be way off and may be the only one that feels this way.

 

i feel ya...altho i'd much prefer n/a then boost...but if i was to ever change my mind...i'd much prefer a kit w/ info and pics...rather then word of mouth...and i do think secrecy is bad!!!none of my business so i really don't care...i'm just bored so dont' mind meeh...

 

Nigel never showed me pics during the sales process.




This is true to some extent.

The most sellers definitely don't want to show pics because they spent the time and effort to R&D the products. I would be upset if a company came along and duplicated the product that I have spent time working on. This is why we have patents for certain products.

As a customer, I can care less how many other turbo'ed maximas there are or how much they paid for the kit. The more the merrier since we can share tuning stories, problems, experiences, etc. I can even get the kit duplicated and sold for WAY under what PFI and Hal are selling the turbo kits for.





















Not gonna do it!

 

Kevin.. i need to talk to you.. step in my office

by the way.. i trusted nigel when i bought my kit.. i didn't need much more.. it was a turbo kit, it worked on his car.. it dyno'd great.. thats all i need to know..

and i didn't know that stillen shows the full kit to people before they buy it

 

How about live customer support? No, PFI doesn't offer it, but I've called and gotten calls from Joaquink for help. Ask Sprite how much info and pictures I gave him regarding the install. A couple more members asked for help and I was glad to provide them with pictures, experiences, and offered to talk to them on the phone. IceY2K1 and I had/have a long thread going in the Moderator forum where we discussed some install issues and boost problems regarding Joaquink's kit.

I get nothing from PFI for doing this. I admit that I can't always be there, but I try to help as best as I can because I know what these guys are going through (problems, issues, frustration, etc). The kit is not perfect, but then again, no one has a DIY turbo kit that fits perfectly.

 

if you cant figure out "what is it", then dont sweat it.

and if you can not figure out most every detail of my setup from my pics, then no offense you are better off buying a kit anyways - or if they are too vague for you, maybe ask nigel for theirs..

figure out the basics of how things work on a turbo kit, then look at the pics again - i mean granted i dont have blue arrows on my pipes showing where the air runs, and red on the exhaust side of where it runs, etc etc so you would have to do a little research or understand the basic concepts of turbo.... but from there, what is not to understand or see from my pics?

 

as to everything else in life...there is 2 pov to every story...from ur pov u r just doin wat ur doin to protect the makers investment on the kit...from wat i see..this action will hold back the maxima community...
1. if someone really wanted to bopped the design they can just buy a kit...whether u post pix or not of the plumbing...even if u do post they would have to make it...which will take a lil trial and error...
2. if there are pix of different kits/design w/ the competition it will prob improve design if there are rooms to be improved...and price will be lower...like maybe thomas' design w/o relocating the battery...just lil stuff like that...
3. and with the open discussion about this issue maybe it will help potential buyers w/ their decision whether it be self installed or have it paid...
4. w/ open discussion there serves potential of solving problems that mite come up...

 

So are you willing to let someone take some good pics?

I really have no interest in a 4-gen system. But since you are willing, the 4-gen guys might.

 

Uhhhhh..... he's been doing a turbo so he understands the concept clearly.

I know how your kit is routed and I can't even tell what those pictures are. Didn't mingo tell you how his whole setup was going to be like? Yours seem very similiar.

 

www.stillen.com



Besides...nobody has an "agreement" stating that we can't show pictures of the kit here, do we?

 

But the plate isn't there. Kind of like how the turbo feed pipe isn't ever pictured.

 

At least it would cost them $3000+ for the entry fee.

We go on about this every few months. It's been discussed at least 2-3 times. All I can say, is spend a few grand developing a new product that requires alot of R&D but doesn't require alot to copy and post a bunch of pictures of how exactly how it's made. Observe results. Then I'd take your replies as gold.

I haven't done this to THAT large of an extent but big enough.

 

I'm sure you've been more than helpful to other members with the kit. Let's put it this way...If I as a potential turbo kit buyer wanted to see all your pics to get a better understanding of what's involved with the kit, would you let me see them?

Besides, (no offense intended towards you here) I'd rather get written documentation/support from the company producing the product rather than an individual who's used it.

I'd love to see that thread in the Moderator forum...could you move it to a general forum?

 

Makes it pretty clear how its mounted.

You miss the point. Has anyone with a SC been asked not to share information about it?

 

if i thought you were a serious buyer? yes i would.. unknown to nigel i actually showed pictures of my kit to Kev before he bought his, jeff, bill and DanNY...

unless i actually thought you were serious about buying it or couldn't do any harm to nigel i wouldn't show you my pictures..

I am sure it was nigel's idea to start making mass produced kits.. he actually went to pfi first.. they had no desire to make kits.. maybe it was nigel's decision to do write ups..

 

precisely and if we are trying to compare the "knowing they will deliver" of stillen vs nigel? i mean they are both on similar levels of sales/production/repuation/etc

and jeff, no i would not even open my hood to your pics... sorry.

i am sorry you all can not understand my pictures, i guess next time i'll just post all of them from the top engine-bay pics except the real ones on my "private server" ?

 

where is the oil feed line?

you want to see top engine pics of nigel's turbo kit?

http://www.turbomaxima.com/modules.p...view_album.php

http://www.turbomaxima.com/modules.p...view_album.php

here you go

 

This is pretty grassroots stuff. Not big corporate sales w/ warranty/certificate of compliance/material analysis test results etc.........

Just a guy that's working w/ a shop.

I see where you are coming from but at this point, if you want to be one of the relative few w/ a turbo system on a maxima(for a pretty low price also), this is how it is. If you want more documentation/nice sales literature/some type of warranty, you might have to wait for a major player to step in and do it. But be prepared to probably pay another $1000 on top of what you are seeing here for the more grassroots kits. And be prepared to wait for a kit that will never materialize.

You went w/ the Stillen SC right? Did the assurance of documentation, the knowledge of pictures and whatever Stillen customer service is, really help you in the end?

 

server is public.. so is the folder.. you just have to know what the name of it is

 

i knoe wat u are sayin...but as i stated...it's just my pov...i'm not goin turbo anyway so it matters not to meeh...i just wanted to be part of this discussion cuz i'm bored...this is just a discussion among my part...no need to take it beyond that...

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SprintMax QUOTE]

i quote ejj "You miss the point. Has anyone with a SC been asked not to share information about it? " and also did you not see this pic, ? thats not top engine-bay show-nothing pic.. thats show all. and has anyone come in and reproduced the stillen bracket over all these years , not that i am aware of, and if so - has it hurt stillens sales noticeably?

 

Yes, there are many POVs. I will not make someone else's job easier by showing pictures of the kit. If the kit was so simple (it actually is), why did it take 7 years for someone to come out with this?


Yes, then they will have to spend the money to buy the kit or make it through trial and error. Showing pictures will definitely help speed up the process of making a kit but not having pictures to look at will make the creator think, execute, test.... wet, lather, rinse, repeat.... you get the point.


There isn't much to improve, just different designs. Thomas's turbo location is very similiar to Matthel's turbo location... Matthel's turbo setup is similiar to Hal's setup... PFI's auto turbo setup is similiar to Matthel's setup. PFI's manual setup is different than their auto setup.

The best setup would be if the turbo sat on the exhaust manifold... but that would require two turbos and space, something we lack.


Anyone can discuss. I can even tell you how the piping is routing. Your imagination of how everything is routed and positioned is different than what I imagine it to be, thus the reason for not showing pictures.

 

That's all I need to know.

 

I understand that. My point is simply that I think they'd get more business if the workings of their kit was better known to potential buyers.

Yes I did. One of the deciding factors was knowledge of the kit here. I know that will come with time for the turbo kits, but at this time, its just not openly available here.

 

Like hal said, you're missing the point. I didn't have to agree not to show anyone else pictures of the kit or anything like that. How many pictures of COMPLETE SC installs do you think you've seen here? Lots I'm sure. That's my point.

 

um i am not making this crap up, I quote Y2KevSE from earlier TODAY "They are all posted on the site but in a non-public directory."...................

if i read properly, non-public, dont know many more ways to translate that.. you say public, he says non-public, its his server, blah blah whatever technicality you want big guy, fact is - public isn't seeing them.

 

This is exactly my problem with the turbo kits. There's a thread out there that could be very helpful to people interested in PFI's tubro kit, yet we aren't allowed to read it because we haven't purchased the kit.

 

um, if i am not mistaken wasn't nigel the only kit available when you purchased turbo? and also have we not covered the altitude-corrected dynoes? whew , circles.

 

I don't know if you can read what i said properly...

the server is public, the folder is public, you just have to know what the name of the folder is

you want me to break it down some more for you?

 

Its just a shame to think that we're going to lose this whole thread when Kev switches servers.

 

This is exactly my problem with the turbo kits. There's a thread out there that could be very helpful to people interested in PFI's tubro kit, yet we aren't allowed to read it because we haven't purchased the kit. [/B][/QUOTE]

you bought an SC kit.. don't worry about whats in that thread.. its of no use to you anymore..

doesn't matter.. even if your kit was around i still would have choose nigel's kit..

Two Words for you Hal.. : MAF PLACEMENT