NOS vs. Supercharging.....
11-04-2000, 01:23 AM
#1
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,161
Well, I have been saving for a SC since I bought my max. I really want one, but my Max already has over 60k miles. By the time I can afford to SC it, I will probably have close to 90k on it, since I drive a lot. I'm not sure if it is wise to SC a car with 90k miles on it. My other option is to get a small shot of NOS now, and forget about SC'ing. My question is this. What kind of gains should I expect from a 50shot of NOS? I don't know too much about NOS, except when I hear stories about it blowing peoples motors up. How much excessive wear does it put on the motor? And also, what are your reccommendations as far as waiting for the SC or going with NOS now?
11-04-2000, 06:51 AM
#2
A 50hp shot on a Max should give you ~0.75 sec reduction in the 1/4 mile. The wear factor is no greater per horse power than any thing else. The problem is that the NOS's power comes on all at once. This does place extra strain on the motor's bearings, rods, crank, rings, and driveline. As far as motors blowing up, thats quite an exagiration. With a properly tuned 50hp shot your Max will hold up. It takes allot of NOS to blow a motor up. I run an 80hp shot w/ no problems, my compression readings are pefect. Just take your time and be cautious and patient when testing after the install.
If you put the NOS on now, by the time you get to 90k the motor will be worn more than if you hadent used the NOS.
More info on the NOS...
The most common and least expensive Nitrous option for the Maxima is the Nitrous Oxide Systems Universal EFI Dry manifold kit #5123 for 2.5L - 3.0L stock motors. Cost for the kit is around ~$550. This kit will supply a 60 hp gain. It is not a Maxima specific kit but it does work on the Maxima.
The dry kits comes with a 10lb bottle with a nitrous pressure gauge, two small (Power Shot) nitrous solenoids with a mounting bracket, 14 ft braided line, one short braided line, one fan spray nozzle, one "TEE" fitting, one nitrous pressure regulator, flare jets, a fuel pressure safety switch, a micro switch, an arming switch, bottle brackets, some fittings, and some electrical stuff and an instruction manual. You will need a hose barb “T” fitting and some extra EFI fuel hose, so plan on making at least one trip to the auto parts store. If you are mechanically inclined and have some experience working on automobiles it shouldn’t be a problem to install this kit in an afternoon.
Nitrous is injected into the motor through a fan spray nozzle located in the air intake path just before the throttle body. The extra fuel is supplied through the factory fuel injectors. This is accomplished by raising the fuel pressure from the normal WOT pressure of 43psi to ~65 psi when the NOS is engaged.
NOS claims that your stock plugs are ok if you use the kit as directed. However most NOS users believe that you should use colder spark plugs. I use NGK PFR6B-11 these are one step colder than the factory plugs on the Maxima, they are the stock plugs for the 300ZX (Thanks Don in TX!!!) Also for every 50 hp that you add you should decrease the plug gap by .004. If you add 60hp over stock you should decrease the gap .005. You have to account for all the power that you have added, not just what you've added with NOS. So if you've added 40 NA hp and 60 NOS hp you would decrease the gap by .008.
NOS claims that your stock ignition timing is ok if you use the kit as directed. However most NOS users recommend that you retard the ignition timing 2 degrees per 50hp. The only way to do this on the Maxima as of this writing is by using the JWT NOS ECU Daughter board. Its ~$900 and only available for the 95 & 96 years of the 4th gens, and I think for the 3rd gens also. JWT also controls the fuel flow for NOS runs. It’s the way to go if you have the $$$. However to increase the power level you must send your computer back to JWT to be reprogrammed.
There are plenty of opinions on this; the bottle pressure should be between 900 & 1000 psi or a temperature of 75-85 deg F. The bottle holds 10 lbs of nitrous and needs to be refilled when there is under ~3 lbs left, cost is usually ~$3 - $3.50 per lb of NOS
You'll have no trouble with running 92 octane or higher.
Here are some other very nice but not necessary items...
An EGT Gauge is a great way to monitor what’s going on inside your motor. If the temps rise higher than 800 deg C your motor is running too hot and you need to investigate why. Basically a rich mixture will show as a lower temp, a lean mixture will show as a high temperature.
An A/F ratio Gauge is just as helpful as an EGT for monitoring what’s going on inside of your motor. A rich mixture is better than a lean mixture wile running NOS. If your motor shows lean you need to investigate why.
A fuel pressure gauge is needed if you plan on going higher than 60 hp with the NOS EFI Dry kit. If you stay at or below the 60 hp level the fuel pressure safety switch that comes in the kit is all you need.
As long as you don't spray at too low of an rpm (below 2500 is getting dangerous) then you really have no need of a window switch on an automatic. You can manually engage the NOS at the appropriate rpm with your arming switch. On a 5 speed a window switch is a good idea. The window switch will allow you to launch at a low rpm and then the NOS will come on at where ever you set it (I use ~3500rpm), this way you wont loose too much traction on launch The window switch will turn off the NOS at where ever you set it (~6200rpm). If your clutch lets go and you motor over revs you will blow your motor with out a way to turn the NOS off before hitting the factory rev limiter.
A bottle heater (preferable the NX model since it is pressure actuated instead of temperature or manually actuated and much more powerful than the other brands to boot.)
A remote bottle opener is great for street use since you can turn the bottle on from the driver's seat. The NOS brand is a heavy-duty solenoid that attached to the bottle directly or is put inline away from the bottle. The NX opener is a literal bottler opener. It actually turns the bottle valve when you flip the switch.
A purge kit makes for quite an intimidating show but if you want to save a little money you can get the same effect as a purge kit if you hit the spray briefly during your burnout. A second or so is all it takes. With a dry kit it just doesn't hit quite as hard with air in the line, which can be a very desirable thing if traction is a problem. You might just leave that air in the line if this is the case. Hello FWD.
Ok, you've got your kit installed. Now what? Let's check to see if it will fire. With the bottle off, arm the system and have someone push the pedal to the floor. Does the WOT switch get tripped? Do you hear and feel the noid's click on and then off again when the pedal is released? If you have a FPSS you'll have to bypass it to get the 'noids to click with the engine off by connecting the wires to it together. Just screw them both to the same post of the switch. Ok, disarm it and open the bottle. Check for leaks.
I would suggest starting with the smallest jets you have for testing purposes and work your way up. A 60 hp shot is all you should spray with the stock fuel system
Approximate HP values for single NOS Jets
HP NOS Jet
25 .024
30 .026
35 .028
40 .030
50 .032
60 .034
70 .036
85 .045
When you first make your test runs you need to check your spark plugs. If you see metallic specs (looks like pepper) on the white insulator part of the plugs your motor is detonating. Or if the ground strap on the spark plug looks like its anodized blue all the way up to the plug threads you are too lean. Adjust you system to compensate.
If you have engine mods other than NOS you many need to decrease the NOS hp level because you are approaching the limits of flow of the factory fuel pump. I put the NOS kit on my stock motor and it worked fine at 60hp. When I added my CAI and Y-Pipe my plugs showed that I was running a little lean. Others have not had this problem, perhaps I had a weak fuel pump or I’m too **** about leanness (is this a bad thing when running NOS?). I then went down to a 40 hp shot and the leanness went away. Of course I wanted the full 60 hp shot back so I then upgraded to a bigger fuel pump and an adjustable FPR. This did the trick, no leanness at 60 hp.
I don’t claim to be the know all on NOS but I have used it for a wile on a few vehicles. If you are unsure about something take your time and ask around. Please follow the directions included in your kit. The NOS web site and technical assistance phone line are great resources for information on using nitrous. Play it safe and you’ll get many miles of fun out of your NOS kit. If you get greedy for hp or careless you can blow your motor very quickly.
Thanks to our own “Don in TX” for helping me understand some of the Maxima specific issues for NOS use and “The Colonel” from the LS1 site.
Matt Pelto
MardiGrasMax
matchou@home.com
mp 10/00
[Edited by MardiGrasMax on 11-04-2000 at 03:32 PM]
If you put the NOS on now, by the time you get to 90k the motor will be worn more than if you hadent used the NOS.
More info on the NOS...
The most common and least expensive Nitrous option for the Maxima is the Nitrous Oxide Systems Universal EFI Dry manifold kit #5123 for 2.5L - 3.0L stock motors. Cost for the kit is around ~$550. This kit will supply a 60 hp gain. It is not a Maxima specific kit but it does work on the Maxima.
The dry kits comes with a 10lb bottle with a nitrous pressure gauge, two small (Power Shot) nitrous solenoids with a mounting bracket, 14 ft braided line, one short braided line, one fan spray nozzle, one "TEE" fitting, one nitrous pressure regulator, flare jets, a fuel pressure safety switch, a micro switch, an arming switch, bottle brackets, some fittings, and some electrical stuff and an instruction manual. You will need a hose barb “T” fitting and some extra EFI fuel hose, so plan on making at least one trip to the auto parts store. If you are mechanically inclined and have some experience working on automobiles it shouldn’t be a problem to install this kit in an afternoon.
Nitrous is injected into the motor through a fan spray nozzle located in the air intake path just before the throttle body. The extra fuel is supplied through the factory fuel injectors. This is accomplished by raising the fuel pressure from the normal WOT pressure of 43psi to ~65 psi when the NOS is engaged.
NOS claims that your stock plugs are ok if you use the kit as directed. However most NOS users believe that you should use colder spark plugs. I use NGK PFR6B-11 these are one step colder than the factory plugs on the Maxima, they are the stock plugs for the 300ZX (Thanks Don in TX!!!) Also for every 50 hp that you add you should decrease the plug gap by .004. If you add 60hp over stock you should decrease the gap .005. You have to account for all the power that you have added, not just what you've added with NOS. So if you've added 40 NA hp and 60 NOS hp you would decrease the gap by .008.
NOS claims that your stock ignition timing is ok if you use the kit as directed. However most NOS users recommend that you retard the ignition timing 2 degrees per 50hp. The only way to do this on the Maxima as of this writing is by using the JWT NOS ECU Daughter board. Its ~$900 and only available for the 95 & 96 years of the 4th gens, and I think for the 3rd gens also. JWT also controls the fuel flow for NOS runs. It’s the way to go if you have the $$$. However to increase the power level you must send your computer back to JWT to be reprogrammed.
There are plenty of opinions on this; the bottle pressure should be between 900 & 1000 psi or a temperature of 75-85 deg F. The bottle holds 10 lbs of nitrous and needs to be refilled when there is under ~3 lbs left, cost is usually ~$3 - $3.50 per lb of NOS
You'll have no trouble with running 92 octane or higher.
Here are some other very nice but not necessary items...
An EGT Gauge is a great way to monitor what’s going on inside your motor. If the temps rise higher than 800 deg C your motor is running too hot and you need to investigate why. Basically a rich mixture will show as a lower temp, a lean mixture will show as a high temperature.
An A/F ratio Gauge is just as helpful as an EGT for monitoring what’s going on inside of your motor. A rich mixture is better than a lean mixture wile running NOS. If your motor shows lean you need to investigate why.
A fuel pressure gauge is needed if you plan on going higher than 60 hp with the NOS EFI Dry kit. If you stay at or below the 60 hp level the fuel pressure safety switch that comes in the kit is all you need.
As long as you don't spray at too low of an rpm (below 2500 is getting dangerous) then you really have no need of a window switch on an automatic. You can manually engage the NOS at the appropriate rpm with your arming switch. On a 5 speed a window switch is a good idea. The window switch will allow you to launch at a low rpm and then the NOS will come on at where ever you set it (I use ~3500rpm), this way you wont loose too much traction on launch The window switch will turn off the NOS at where ever you set it (~6200rpm). If your clutch lets go and you motor over revs you will blow your motor with out a way to turn the NOS off before hitting the factory rev limiter.
A bottle heater (preferable the NX model since it is pressure actuated instead of temperature or manually actuated and much more powerful than the other brands to boot.)
A remote bottle opener is great for street use since you can turn the bottle on from the driver's seat. The NOS brand is a heavy-duty solenoid that attached to the bottle directly or is put inline away from the bottle. The NX opener is a literal bottler opener. It actually turns the bottle valve when you flip the switch.
A purge kit makes for quite an intimidating show but if you want to save a little money you can get the same effect as a purge kit if you hit the spray briefly during your burnout. A second or so is all it takes. With a dry kit it just doesn't hit quite as hard with air in the line, which can be a very desirable thing if traction is a problem. You might just leave that air in the line if this is the case. Hello FWD.
Ok, you've got your kit installed. Now what? Let's check to see if it will fire. With the bottle off, arm the system and have someone push the pedal to the floor. Does the WOT switch get tripped? Do you hear and feel the noid's click on and then off again when the pedal is released? If you have a FPSS you'll have to bypass it to get the 'noids to click with the engine off by connecting the wires to it together. Just screw them both to the same post of the switch. Ok, disarm it and open the bottle. Check for leaks.
I would suggest starting with the smallest jets you have for testing purposes and work your way up. A 60 hp shot is all you should spray with the stock fuel system
Approximate HP values for single NOS Jets
HP NOS Jet
25 .024
30 .026
35 .028
40 .030
50 .032
60 .034
70 .036
85 .045
When you first make your test runs you need to check your spark plugs. If you see metallic specs (looks like pepper) on the white insulator part of the plugs your motor is detonating. Or if the ground strap on the spark plug looks like its anodized blue all the way up to the plug threads you are too lean. Adjust you system to compensate.
If you have engine mods other than NOS you many need to decrease the NOS hp level because you are approaching the limits of flow of the factory fuel pump. I put the NOS kit on my stock motor and it worked fine at 60hp. When I added my CAI and Y-Pipe my plugs showed that I was running a little lean. Others have not had this problem, perhaps I had a weak fuel pump or I’m too **** about leanness (is this a bad thing when running NOS?). I then went down to a 40 hp shot and the leanness went away. Of course I wanted the full 60 hp shot back so I then upgraded to a bigger fuel pump and an adjustable FPR. This did the trick, no leanness at 60 hp.
I don’t claim to be the know all on NOS but I have used it for a wile on a few vehicles. If you are unsure about something take your time and ask around. Please follow the directions included in your kit. The NOS web site and technical assistance phone line are great resources for information on using nitrous. Play it safe and you’ll get many miles of fun out of your NOS kit. If you get greedy for hp or careless you can blow your motor very quickly.
Thanks to our own “Don in TX” for helping me understand some of the Maxima specific issues for NOS use and “The Colonel” from the LS1 site.
Matt Pelto
MardiGrasMax
matchou@home.com
mp 10/00
[Edited by MardiGrasMax on 11-04-2000 at 03:32 PM]
11-04-2000, 07:10 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 939
Matt-
Excellent nitrous system explanation! You put alot of time in that post and Im sure it helped alot of people.
Ive toyed with the idea of adding nitrous to my 2k Maxima, but havent done it yet. Ive used it a few other times before, but not on a Maxima. Im thinking of going with a wet kit. Well see...
Excellent nitrous system explanation! You put alot of time in that post and Im sure it helped alot of people.
Ive toyed with the idea of adding nitrous to my 2k Maxima, but havent done it yet. Ive used it a few other times before, but not on a Maxima. Im thinking of going with a wet kit. Well see...
11-04-2000, 10:58 AM
#6
Hehe
Yep, that a butt-load of info.
The plugs are from the NA 300ZX, not the TT, but the part number is correct. These can be found at any Nissan dealer.
Make changes in moderation, monitor car response, watch for detonation. Use 100+ unleaded if possible (cheap insurance)..
As far as the fastest Maxima...if the car blows up at the end...does that really count??
Enjoy the ride
The plugs are from the NA 300ZX, not the TT, but the part number is correct. These can be found at any Nissan dealer.
Make changes in moderation, monitor car response, watch for detonation. Use 100+ unleaded if possible (cheap insurance)..
As far as the fastest Maxima...if the car blows up at the end...does that really count??
Enjoy the ride
11-04-2000, 11:11 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 410
Re: Hehe
As far as the fastest Maxima...if the car blows up at the end...does that really count??
11-04-2000, 03:42 PM
#12
The only 12-second Maxima ever (12.8@107.5) used a 125-shot dry system.
Is this person still around? I take it by the other posts that he had problems with the 125hp level? What happend? Do you know how I can get intouch with them?
Not a problem to post this guys, I'm glad it helped yall. I have it in WORD so I can just cut and paste it if I see some one asking about NOS on the Max. Feel free to e-mail me if you have questions.
:
11-04-2000, 05:30 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,441
Originally posted by MardiGrasMax
Smokin times!!!
Is this person still around? I take it by the other posts that he had problems with the 125hp level? What happend? Do you know how I can get intouch with them?
Not a problem to post this guys, I'm glad it helped yall. I have it in WORD so I can just cut and paste it if I see some one asking about NOS on the Max. Feel free to e-mail me if you have questions.
The only 12-second Maxima ever (12.8@107.5) used a 125-shot dry system.
Is this person still around? I take it by the other posts that he had problems with the 125hp level? What happend? Do you know how I can get intouch with them?
Not a problem to post this guys, I'm glad it helped yall. I have it in WORD so I can just cut and paste it if I see some one asking about NOS on the Max. Feel free to e-mail me if you have questions.
his email is ghettomax@aol.com
11-04-2000, 07:39 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
His name's Jamie Farrer...he's since retired the Maxima (nicknamed Ghettomax) he currently owns the world's fastest Sentra (10.4 or something). I didn't get the details of his mods or if he had any engine problems, but considering he had an auto, I'm sure he had tranny problems his email is ghettomax@aol.com
his email is ghettomax@aol.com
Anyways, from what I heard he blew his #2 piston ring and that was the end of it. Maximamike prolly knows more.
11-05-2000, 05:12 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 939
Originally posted by La Jolla Max
If your only objective is to go fast in the 1/4 mile, then that's the way to go.
The only 12-second Maxima ever (12.8@107.5) used a 125-shot dry system.
If your only objective is to go fast in the 1/4 mile, then that's the way to go.
The only 12-second Maxima ever (12.8@107.5) used a 125-shot dry system.
11-05-2000, 02:40 PM
#17
here a pic
<img src= "http://www.carinfosource.com/autoad4.jpg">
...
Nitrous Equipped 99 Maxima owned by Jamie Farrer of Matawan ,NJ. Best 1/4 12.8 at 107 MPH.
- Hot Setup - Apparently Jamie has found the hot setup for the Maxima. With Intake, 18" rims and Nitto Tires, Cat Back exhaust, Y-Pipe, NOS, and a long list of other mods, this Maxima, nicknamed "GhettoMax" has earned its title as a true 12 second Maxima.
...
...
Nitrous Equipped 99 Maxima owned by Jamie Farrer of Matawan ,NJ. Best 1/4 12.8 at 107 MPH.
- Hot Setup - Apparently Jamie has found the hot setup for the Maxima. With Intake, 18" rims and Nitto Tires, Cat Back exhaust, Y-Pipe, NOS, and a long list of other mods, this Maxima, nicknamed "GhettoMax" has earned its title as a true 12 second Maxima.
...
11-05-2000, 08:51 PM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
You guys gotta get facts straight before posting...
"As far as the fastest Maxima...if the car blows up at the end...does that really count?? "
Jaime ran a 12.7 and the only reason the motor blew was b.c we had a little bit too much to drink the night before and he never got a fuel pump fuse in. The car went 1 13.0 run before blowing the motor.
A 12 sec run with no fuel pump says a huge amount for that motor. You guys have some great engines, no doubt. The stranny was fine. Still stock 5 SPEED trans.
The SE-R went 10.06 btw. And i know you guys love honda bashing, just curious --- why? I know many of those guys are ricey clowns but this board doesnt seem to be all that much above and beyond. If adam goes 14s with his fatass you guys need some practice driving.
Jaime ran a 12.7 and the only reason the motor blew was b.c we had a little bit too much to drink the night before and he never got a fuel pump fuse in. The car went 1 13.0 run before blowing the motor.
A 12 sec run with no fuel pump says a huge amount for that motor. You guys have some great engines, no doubt. The stranny was fine. Still stock 5 SPEED trans.
The SE-R went 10.06 btw. And i know you guys love honda bashing, just curious --- why? I know many of those guys are ricey clowns but this board doesnt seem to be all that much above and beyond. If adam goes 14s with his fatass you guys need some practice driving.
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