grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Yes - but I'm not sharing. On July 10 I got five passes on a very-well prepped track. Track trials were to learn about launch and how the engine handles the nitrous and since I had to slowly manually shift the automatic for each gear, times weren't anything special. I hit the rev limiter entirely too often at the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Too much power in first gear (with a 50-shot), second gear hooked up OK w/100-shot spray, and third gear is a beast now. This was with the 23/8.5/15 M&H Racemaster slicks mounted. I think I need larger diameter slicks. Maybe some 26/10/15 Racemasters...

Funny thing - I wasn't paying much attention to my opponents in the opposite lane, but I did stage against a new bumblebee Mustang towards the last - he had a smoky burnout and loud exhaust - when we launched, I was mostly watching gauges and shifting carefully, but he was next to me until I got into third gear, then I pulled him by 3-4 car lengths! That was unusual compared to the old 3.0 setup. Speed change in the last 1/8 was from 75.38 MPH to 102.12 MPH. The 60' were four 2.0x and one 2.1x (first one).

I got a couple of good PLX A/F logs of full-spray passes, and that looks good - Tune-by-Tape FTW! Plugs looked very good for the 50-shot + 50-shot I was using. Obviously I'll raise the shots at some point.

Another dyno is coming - just have to hook up for a date in KC.

What dual nitrous on a 3.5 looks like: two pairs of solenoids plus one purge, three relays, a WOT switch, and other stuff...



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grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Here is the PLX logging file showing the three gears I used and the A/F during each gear. Note the delays in between each gear - where I had to let off the nitrous and throttle, shift the tranny, then get back into spray.. Hit the rev limiter on the 1-2 shift and 2-3 shift, I see... The blue vertical line is showing third gear.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

if I am reading this correctly, whats up with your a/f in 3rd kinda lean right

btw I would not call this thread jacking cause this is all usefully info that he will need in the near future

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I think the A/F is wunnerful in 3rd - I read a few books on the subject, and had the pain of running around a 10:1 A/F, and 11.5:1 - 12:1 is a good place to be. All those A/F spikes might fool you, but that's where I lifted the throttle - it really goes lean then. On this pass, I was in and out of first gear a bit - that shows in the A/F too. WOT is always 11.5:1 - 12:1. The plugs looked great when I pulled them the next day. From past experience, running too rich slows you down.

I think that real photos of real installations and real track data on a documented car is about as useful as it can be......

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

ok maybe I am reading it wrong cause the only time it looked like it hit 12/1 was right after the red line

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

(The blue line is in the middle of third gear).

First gear is non-typical - launched at 3000, I was in and out of the throttle, but in second and third gears it was between 11.5 / 12.0 and a little shifting spike at 12.5, at least that's what I see. At the end of third it was close to 11.5 and that was at 6000 RPMs - not much headroom there. ???

If I had the new Shift_Fast built and controlling gears, I'm sure I would have hit the rev limit in third before the finish line.

Without my Tune-by-Tape mod, it would have been much richer.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

O ok I see I thought the red line was 3rd gear but it's when you got out of it and that explains why it went lean. nice I like how it give you rpm and mph

btw could give me that link for buying race gas online

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I have purchased Sunoco 104 (my favorite) from a distributor in Texas - here's a search link:

http://www.grand-am.com/assets/Sunoc...stributors.pdf

or these guys:

http://www.racegas.biz/sunoco.html

I also use VP Racing fuels: (Streetblaze 103) distributor list is in here...

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/index2.html

I'm going to raise the bar on fuels to reach 400 whp - VP Racing MOTORSPORT 109 seems like the best choice for LOTS of nitrous.

Don't forget to do surgery on your plugs if you go to heavy shots.

i30dvr

iTrader: (6)

if everything is well prepped...bottle warmer, plugs etc....what do you think you could get away with as the shot? i know you said a 150 but that won't get you 400whp. What would u suggest as far as plugs go? i have 2 step colder ngk plugs gapped at .035.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I was talking about my cammed + headered etc. 3.5 - it might take a 175-shot total to raise it to 400 whp, using three stages of nitrous. Traction will be a problem. I gotta dyno the 50-shot + 50-shot to be sure - should show around 330 HWP.

For a 3.0 - NGK copper plugs - two step colder - two stages, cut ground straps, side-gapped to .035 IF you raise the coil bus voltage to 16 volts so you don't get misfires - otherwise .030. A MEVI is good - slicks are better - good fuel is essential. Detonation will kill you. Lots of folk talk about spraying a big shot, but ask for the slip. No low 13s, no way.

First learn how to deal with a 75-shot on launch and on through the gears. Once you figure that out - plugs, fuel, tires, then install another stage triggered by a floor switch and learn how to use that.

When you work through all this and you are running in the low 13's every pass, then you're ready to step up to the big stuff. And you're one of the Big Dogs.

Have you got something together to spray and run yet ??? Always curious on how others make it happen.

i30dvr

iTrader: (6)

i have gotten the system to work ok but i think my window switch fried from the heat in the motor bay so i need get another window switch so it doesn't spray while shifting. i don't have any decent times yet and am hoping to get some this week at the track.

ajcool2

iTrader: (43)

What track are you going to?

i30dvr

iTrader: (6)

prolly ods in manassas. Wanna get everything straight b4 i make the drive to mir or something...


ok next question. What is everyone using for window switch's? i had the msd 8959 with the pills. Is anyone using digital? How hard/easy is the install compared to the non digital? What would everyone suggest? I was looking at the digital two stage switch from dynotunenitrous.com but i don't plan on running two stages at least right now. That would still work correct?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

The MSD 8969 can be used for all sorts of things, and it's programmable in 100-RPM steps from the front - no pills. These things are great - I have three at the moment.

i30dvr

iTrader: (6)

grey- ok i hooked up my 8969 and it works as far as power and the settings. i programmed 6cyl. on 1500 off 2000 just to test to make sure it works and it doesn't. I know u can't tell me exactly whats wrong but i have it setup just like the diagram. Red- power to switch, black ground, white-tach, yellow i also ran to ground so it is NO until that rpm is reached and then it is grounded. The grey wire isn't run to anything. does it sound like i have something messed up? is the grey wire used at all? how do you have urs setup. I am running this and wot switch.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

You know, I use the yellow wire set up to go to ground when I reach the lower setpoint at 6500, to shift my tranny. This may not be right if you are making a window switch out of the 8969. I actually program the 8969 at 6500 lower and 12,000 upper RPMs.

Try setting the 8969 to say 3000 lower and 4500 upper then running up the RPMs while trying the grey wire. Connect a 12-volt light bulb to +12 volts and the other side to the grey wire, then the yellow wire. One of these will work.


Harold

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

also I would not use the msd switch to provide ground for the nitrous/fuel soleniods, you should use it to activate a relay

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Of course not - the nitrous/fuel solenoids are connected together through a 30-amp automotive relay, and the ground of that relay is switched through the MSD controller. This way the relay handles the 30 amps or so required by both solenoids, and the MSD controller only has to handle the coil current of the automotive relay.

But you already knew that - I just echoed what your point really was...

i30dvr

iTrader: (6)

does the grey or yellow wire need to be tapped into the wot switch on the tb or just run to the ground?

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

it's just that I am amazed at how many people will try to use the msd to provide a direct ground for the soleniod then wonder why their rpm switch burns out

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

harold on a side note which TB are you using for your 3.5, I am wondering cause I see you still have cruise

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

The TB is a Pathy 01 3.5TB, 70 mm throat. Cruise hooks up fine - it's nice when cruising down the interstate with ZZTop blasting from the Alpines and Fosgate sub , and with the A/C keeping me cool. Truly a dual-purpose LandShark.. I likes me margaritas...

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Oh dear - neither one - - the two MSD control lines are just switched internally to ground. Their actions are different - the MSD spec sheet spells it out.

To quote MSD:
"Gray. Normally closed. This wire will remove the ground source at your desired ON rpm and complete the ground circuit at the set OFF rpm."

"Yellow. Normally Open. This wire will provide a ground source at your desired ON rpm and remove the ground at the set OFF rpm".

Hope this helps - but never hook up a nitrous system the first time without a complete wiring diagram. Smoke will get in your eyes, you know...

i30dvr

iTrader: (6)

i understand there actions are diff. anyway the old rpm switch was working fine and i think the heat from the engine bay fried it. when that was in i had the power tapped into the group of wires from the wot switch and the solenoids to the relay but when i wired this one i ran the power wire straight to the arming switch. My question is what do i need to tap into as far as intereception because when i had the power into the group of wires like the old one it sprayed as soon as i armed it, not what i want obviously.....

sweed88

whats ur car dynod at