E85 stoich AFR=9.76 Lambda=1.00 (of course)

E85 max power rich - AFR=6.98 Lambda= 0.714

E85 max power lean - AFR=8.47 Lambda=0.867

Nitrous is good around Lambda = 0.8 Serious racers use this one.

I'm getting closer. I'm going to bump up the fuel jets another notch (19).

My present 0.93 Lambda is about the same as gasoline 13.7/1 AFR.

 

The rains (OK, sprinkles) quit today so tonight I decided to try some jetting changes. I dumped the 21N-18F combo and went to 26N-20F and made a couple of short blasts but the lambda was back up to 1.0xx. I came back to the "pits" and swapped in 21 fuel jets and used up some more nitrous on the highways and on-ramps, where the lambda dropped back to .9xx. I came back again and changed the fuel jets to 022, but didn't have enough E85 in the tank to do more - I wont spray below 3/8 tank - under acceleration the engine starts to surge and then drops power - which ain't healthy with nitrous spraying in the hole. That car drank about 4-5 gallons tonight and I drove less than 20 miles total. While spraying it drinks the E85.

I wanted to set the nitrous jetting back to where NX says it should be and change the lambda with fuel jetting instead of the other way around. This seems to work better for tweaking the lambda - but I need more ethanol !!!

Maybe tomorrow after work....

 

Since I was very low on E85, on Friday night I drove to the only remaining E85 station in Topeka and bought 5 gallons from a pump and took it home and tested it. It checked out at E75 - seems the winter blends are coming here. Put it in the tank, warmed the N2O tank and sent for another drive with the 26N-22E combination. This proved to be very "boggy" and was acting too rich, yet the PLX still hovered around 1.0 Lambda. Enough for the evening - the nitrous purge said the bottle was nearly empty after three more highway blasts. That makes three empty 15 lb bottles to get filled. ($200 bucks).

Saturday afternoon I went to Lawrence KS, to the Zarco station at 9th and Iowa and filled up five cans with E85 ($3.29/gal) and headed home, where I tested these cans - came up at E80. I swapped in a fresh bottle for the evening's use, swapped the fuel jets back to .021, and when 9PM rolled around, I heated the bottle and went out for a few test runs. The car felt much stronger - but the Lambda numbers didn't really change from around 1.0.

Something is screwy - since I started using E85 the PLX doesn't show lower Lambda numbers when I jet it richer and spray it. I Googled for problems with the Bosch LSU42 sensor and found some reference to early failures when used with oxygenated fuels (E85!) or problems when the EGT goes over 1300 degrees or when the "hex" temp goes over 500 degrees. That's the temp of the hex part of the sensor - there are heat sinks sold to fix this problem! I just ordered a new sensor and will change it out when it arrives.

 

man seems like it would be easier to just run a stand alone fuel system with race fuel in it and pump gas in the car

 

If you use pump gas, you still dilute the effects - and safety - of race gas. Probably not a good thing with heavier shots of nitrous which is my long-term plan, E85 is at least as "safe" as race gas, according to the real racers that use it, with a tremendous cooling effect that no race gas has. Right now, after a heavy pull of nitrous on the highway, my radiator temp may go up to 180 degrees. Normal driving is 150-170 degrees, with a 170 degree thermostat. This is partly because I have the radiator fans running all the time when nitrous is armed, but still much cooler than before E85. It really needs to be warmer now that cool weather is here, but now I know how to keep the engine cool if needed.

Other than the weird PLX readings i'm getting, the car is totally ready for serious track time. The transmission and axles are still working fine, the car launches very well with the throttle-controlled spray, and all other mods are working OK. It feels like a beast - just the wacko PLX lambda readings are keeping me off a dyno or a track - I don't want to burn down the engine now.

 

The new PLX sensor will be here Friday - and I found a commercial heat sink for this kind of wideband sensor. These are listed everywhere - this must be a big problem for lots of people.

Look here: http://tunertools.com/proddetail.asp?prod=IN-3729

and here: ( Sears ! )

http://www.sears.com/innovate-motors...SPM5690536003P

 

The replacement Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor and the sensor heat sink both showed up today. Pix are below. The heat sink screws into the bung and the wideband sensor screws into the heat sink. Seems like most real racers know about needing a heat sink on their wideband. Oh well.... now I have one. If it doesn't rain tomorrow, after I get back from my trip to Kansas City to pick up fuel, I'll install both of them.

I also got a lead on 50 gallons of E98 - a 55 gal drum with 5 gallons used for a dyno test on an E85 race car. The dyno didn't show any power increase so he wants to sell it. I called him last night and arranged to pick up the drum tomorrow morning for $200. What a deal - I can make E98 into 5 gal of E85 by using 4 1/4 gal of E98 with 3/4 gal of race fuel. And I have 5 gal of VP MS109 and 4 gal of Sunoco GT100 just looking for a home....

 

I went after the E98 today - met the guy at the go-cart track north of Legends in KC - and rolled it into my pickup from his. Strapped it to my strap mounts in the bed and brought it home, made a 4-strap sling for it while in the bed, used the chain lift in the garage to take it out and let it down onto a roll-around cart I put together real quick.


I moved it to a corner of the garage after re-arranging the cans of E"xx" sitting everywhere, searched around for a wrench or some other way of unscrewing the bung and settled on a belt aluminum strap ground to fit. I took out some of the E98 and tested it - looks like that's what it is There is a very small line of gas on the top of the E98 after testing it. Good news - but that stuff gives me a headache quicker than VP MS109.

Maybe tomorrow I'll install the heat sink and new Bosch sensor. I've had enough fun for today...


Pix:

 

like your crane setup

 

Yeah, there were so many things wrong with taking 50 gallons of E98 in a plastic drum out of the pickup and lowering down to the roll-around stand... I must have worked on getting the straps right for an hour. I did NOT want to drop it !

The chain lift is fastened to the garage ceiling with a chain over 2 2x6 10 ft boards with ceiling to floor supports on both ends. That has lifted many engines and transmissions - but never enough ethanol for a Super Bowl tailgate party...

 

Some more pix:



Hose survived bottle pressure - nozzle w/jet at the end.





Drum's new home

 

I decided to divide the problem in half - again - so last night I disconnected the direct port distribution blocks and installed a NX Shark nozzle before the TB, like in the olden days. I jetted it for a 75-shot with E85 at 41N / 30E, warmed up the car and a bottle and went for a drive. A couple of short bursts and the lambda was down to .94. I went back to the pits and changed the fuel jet up to a 33, and hit the hightways again.

This time the lambda dropped to .82-.84 while pulling at WOT - this is what I would expect to happen with a richer fuel jet and E85 ( .80 is the goal), but what doesn't happen with the direct port setup. FWIW, the car does not have the instant response with the NX Shark that I feel with direct port - things are slower to happen when opening the throttle, but still pulls very well above 3500. Since I don't know how well the '08 Altima UIM distributes the nitrous-fuel to all the ports, I'm not going any higher than a 75-shot.

I suspect that I am having some problem with maintaining fuel flow with the location of the nozzles right next to the runner wall - perhaps the nitrous pressure is slowing the flow of E85 out of the nozzles. There's not much room at the tip of the nozzles (section #12 of this thread has pix) so I'm thinking I need extended tip nozzles instead of the regular length. Nitrous Outlet has them, but they use NX jets, not NOS jets, and I have about 120 jets in the NOS format that I really don't want to replace at $5 each.

I'm pretty sure I'm on to a solution to the high lambda problem - but I'm not done yet.


I'm going to look for another plastic UIM... car-part.com or eBay or Courtesy Nissan.... I can start over with drilling nozzle holes.


PIX:

 

I found a 2008 Altima UIM on eBay and bought it. I also have one Nitrous Outlet extended 1/16 nitrous nozzle on order now. I have an idea about changing out the nozzle's jet housing with NOS parts for NOS jets - which do interchange on my other NX nozzles.


I need parts-in-hand to put this all together, but I have high hopes.

 

FedEx delivered the manifold today. It's in great shape. I took some pix out the outside and inside, and some shots of an idea to re-locate the nozzles. I took out the vacuum-controlled valves on both side - because when I transfer parts over from the existing manifold, I don't need them. Heck, I wouldn't need to buy a bunch of the extended-tip nozzles, either. ( = $$$ )












The nozzles should be extended much further into the runners - and I think if I drill out a hole in the center of each runner - but high enough to clear the fuel rails - that I can countersink them deep enough into the manifold to work correctly. I'm thinking some fancy drill work and a rotary file to open up the holes to recess the nozzle, then seal everything together with JB Weld (24 hr version) and this will give me nozzles in the right locations for E85 spray.

 

The extended-tip nozzle form Nitrous Outlet showed up. It looks just like the catalog - and, it's NOS jet compatible, not for NX jets. Yea. I tried a couple of my bucket-o-jets just to be sure - this save some work and bucks !

EDIT: I was looking at the Nitrous Outlet nozzle again, wondering about the six more extended-tip nozzles I just ordered from them, and I found that at least that nozzle will work with NOS and NX jets! The screw-in part of the nozzle is longer than the other nozzles I have - and the reason is that the jet holder is deeper inside than normal and has a deeper hole to match the NOS jets' extra length. I can put either a NX or NOS jet in the holder and tighten down a hose to make a seal !! This is super-clever, and I hope for others that this trick applies to the rest of their nozzles - at least for people with a large collection of jets. Dang - I'm impressed with Dave!



I went ahead with reworking the new UIM to support the loooonngg nozzles, and things worked out very well indeed I used a strip of 1/4" Kydex plastic mounted across the front of the manifold - just like my present one - and drilled and tapped that plastic to locate all six extended nozzles in the center of the runners. It's tough stuff. I need to order the rest of the nozzles today, then when I screw all of them into their permanent homes, I'll seal around the nozzles with black RTV just like my present setup. Then it's off to my private (highway) race track for some runs... and some good tuning results for lambda..

 

While I'm waiting for the extended nozzles to arrive, tonight I made three hardwood spacers that go between pairs of nozzles to keep them aligned - otherwise they flop around with nothing to index them.

I've painted them a flat black so that's what the final version will be.

 

Looking good Harold!

 

Hella jigsaw puzzle, ain't it ?? Still, if this works there are still some track dates open into November so I can go play with the Shark... need to burn up some of the E98 in the barrel.

 

I finished prepping the UIM for mounting the nozzles when they get here. I put plastic tubing in the nozzle holes and pushed black 100% silicone RTV into all the open spaces around the nozzle plate. When the RTV cures I can pull out the polyethelyne tubing and screw the nozzles in place and install the support blocks and it's done. Well, I still have to pull out the existing UIM and swap over the stuff that supports the TB and cables, but that's easy. Heck, I can even look at the spark plugs.

EDIT: this morning - I pulled out the plastic tubes - they came right out, ready for the nozzles, which will be here Thursday, tomorrow. Yea !

PIX:

 

All six nozzles arrived today - and I installed them. Everything fit together nicely - just like I planned it that way ! I also installed the retainer blocks. It all looks good, too. Tomorrow night I'll take out the old manifold, strip off the add-ons and transfer them to the new manifold and re-assemble everything. And then it's spraying time!

 

good job molding the rtv in to shap

hope this works for you

 

Thanks - me, too. I swapped out the manifolds last night, and I just need to bolt down a few things and relocate a couple of hoses, then it's highway testing time tonight. The new nozzle setup fits rather well - surprised myself.

 

Some random pix of last night and today's installation. Just started up the car - no problems there - and set a fresh bottle in the sun for later. Later is after the K-State / W.Virginia football game.

I installed 26N/21F jets for the first test tonight.





0












Old setup:



New setup:

 

Some details about the last few days of tweaking the Shark:

Drove the 26N/21F jet combination - no obvious change in Lambda, shows ~ .96. Hmm.

I bumped the fuel pressure up to 50 psi and went out again and the car immediately sputtered and tried to die when I sprayed. Lambda dropped to .63 with no power. Even NA driving with 50psi was not good - engine felt rich.

Put fuel pressure back to 44 psi.

Remembered the number one rule - get your NA setup correct before tuning nitrous. Seems that WOT NA was around Lambda .65 - super rich.

I Tuned-by-Tape and got the NA back to .80 - target for E85 - and wow, NA runs got stronger.

Did some more testing with same nitrous jets and Lambda was ~ 1.06 but the car pulled much harder. Remember, spraying through a NX Shark nozzle 75-shot installed before the TB gave tunable results - got the Lambda down to the target .80 no problem. The single nozzle did not respond fast like the direct-port does - plus I don't trust the spray distribution in the Altima manifold.

I know I'm pouring the fuel through the direct-port nozzles but the Lambda does not drop to match. A good WOT run drinks a gallon or more of fuel. Three hard runs and I put in another 5 gallon can of E85.

 

Looking good harold, this thing running 9's yet?

 

Hi, streetz. This car was heading to the local track tonight, had everything in the pickup and the Shark on the trailer - and they cancelled the entire weekend's events until next weekend. Temp was low 40s and dropping to 29 tonight, so I can see why they cancelled, but Dang ... I was ready to hit it.

I want to get in the 11s with nitrous and E85, then I can play E85 + TURBO !!!

 

Hmmmm... Oklahoma State 30 - Kansas State 44.

 

How's the car Harold?
Are there any more track days this year?

 

I've been a little short of spare time lately, so no posts. I'm still fishing around for a reason for the A/F lambda showing so weirdly high even when the fuel delivery is correct. Funny thing is that if I use a single NX Shark nozzle, it's tunable to the correct lambda numbers 0.80), but with the direct port spraying the correct amount of E85, the number is still around 1.00+. I wonder if there is something wrong with spraying a maximum of a 25-shot through nozzles rated at 200? Dribble instead of spray???

There are no track dates left anywhere in our Midwest in November - there is an IFO in Ennis TX on Sunday but chances of making that is slim-to-none, and chances of rain there is 50% that day.

 

I did a quick video with my pocket Nikon CoolPix camera - the car idles at 1,000 RPM and makes a pretty deep sound. Thought I would share:


http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...t=DSCN2807.mp4

Burning E85 seems to create a lot of water - you can see a fresh streak of water back of the car created when I hit it a couple of times.

 

I love it.

 

Wow - you must have been bored today, making all these posts in different threads that don't say anything.....

 

You hit the nail right on the head.

 

I ordered a qt. of DOMINATOR 2-cycle oil and 8oz of Saber Professional 100:1 2-cycle oil. I'm not going to be able to track test during this winter, but I can mix some of both with E98, at least....

 

Klotz Uplon top oil - for racers...

After some online Google work digging through racing forums and E85, I find many references to the Klotz Uplon product. It's available through Summit racing... intended to work with gasoline, methanol, nitromethane(!), diesel and E85. Looks like the real deal.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...fuel-lubricant

The Klotz web site reference link: (nothing obvious about TC-W3 rating)

http://www.klotzlube.com/techsheet.asp?ID=51

EDIT: Ordered a container from Summit yesterday, since I don't drive a 2-cycle Maxima......

 

Back of the bottle:

 

should i use that with my meth injection?

 

I didn't see anything about this oil mixing with water, so I guess the answer starts with exactly what you are running for a methanol mixture. If it's pure methanol under high pressure then I think the stated 1/4oz per gallon would work just fine.

Lots of racers use it with methanol - and that's the fuel that needs a top oil the most, since so much is needed to make power.

 

I "think" that I may know why I've been having such a huge problem with tuning my direct-port nitrous system. Reversion. Stuff being blown back up the runners....


http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9...ersionaxa4.jpg

and

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1...ersionbpd6.jpg

Where the "pink" shows fuel being forced away from the intake valves and pushed back into the runner.


The nozzles are probably mounted too close to the intake valve and the nozzle spray is blasting the injector spray pulse away from the intake port and pushing the spray back up into the UIM runner. This fits the problem pretty well - regardless how much I jet up for on E85, the Lambda doesn't go down, yet at higher jet numbers, the car feels richer and begins to bog - which makes sense if you consider that the injector spray may be condensing out on the runner walls and going back into the cylinder as a fluid - and not burning.

If I use a NX Shark nozzle mounted ahead of the TB, tuning for Lambda works like you would expect. I'm going to grab the other Altima UIM and figure out a way to mount the six Induction Solutions nozzes on the runners, as far from the intake valves as I can manage. I already know that JB Weld won't bond to the UIM runners, so it's time to be creative...

Maybe....

 

Also while the intake valve is closed and the nitrous shot is so close to it, there's not enough air time/hang time between the spray and the valve to open. So its pretty much running alot of nitrous into a wall then when the valve opens the nitrous is no longer as potent/gassy.

Putting them further away will allow the nitrous to spend more time traveling to the intake valves....
Maybe?
Maybe?