?? ive been saying this stuff for longgg time now. Hardly anyone will drop the $$$$ on this stuff. Which i totally understand. But the serious serious serious guys need a serious EMS.



It will work great with VQ35. need to confirm vq30, id think it would work no prob. But IM NOT a VQ30 ecu person. so i cant say 100%

 

'SPLAIN!!! I could buy a Haltech now and use it w/ my car then get another harness for the VQ35....

What's the different between the two? Both motors run off of the same priciples.... With some silly variable nonsense in between....

 

You can use the haltech inline with a stock ecu. Ehhh yeah you "could" but big $$$$ in 2 harnesses. and time and what not.



VQ30 and 35 trigger patterns are way different. Im pretty sure the S2k will run a VQ30 no prob, (it def should!) but i have never looked into VQ30 stuff much. ESP this $$$$ range.



a EMU on a VQ30 is pretty good for what your spending.

 

THe PS2K isn't an inline though , unless you're referring to something else.

Sure on the T-Ring, but the PRINCIPLES on how they work is the same, the VQ35 is most precise.

*just remembered something*
OH CHITTTTTT I NEED TO CHANGE MY FLYWHEEL T-RING FOR MY MOTOR SWAP

 

You know, the 3.5 FWD has a CKP crank and CMP cam sensors. Any of the earlier 3.5s have these sensors, so maybe the Haltech would work with my engine since I have the cam sensors and could swap flywheels for a 3.5 flywheel to use the CKP sensor.

If this could work, what then? How much can be removed from the control of the 99 ECU before it loses its mind?

 

PS2K can be wired inline, they have a box for that. Its what im going to try with my little ecu swap project.


Well ya the principle is the same. Intake, Compression, Power, Exhaust???


haha see there ya go!!!

 

Im not sure exactly what your referring to doing. BUT soon as you loose cam signals and crank signals most likely the vq30 ecu will not do much after that! Now if you want to remove the vq30 ecu then its different!


But here is my thinking on you 3.0 ecu guys.


Here is the problems:
Running a VQ30 ecu means you gotta run vq30 crank and cam stuff.
That means your running VQ30 timing cover.



IF you can do this..... RUN VQ35 timing cover, and somehow make the vq30 ecu get cam/crank signals that it liked!!!

THENNN you could install a EMS to run the VQ35!!!!!!! AND fool the stock vq30 ecu to think its running the motor. = should pass obd2, stock functions should work, and EMS should run VQ35 and be fully tunable


NOW i dont think this is possible, why, well because if it was then why would anyone use the 3.0 tim cover on a 3.5? its to have a place to mount the sensors, as well lose IVT.



DANG I NEED A 4th gen to test crap out on.

 

My reasons:
The stock ECU runs a lot of stuff, and I want to keep it that way. I have a fully built 3.5 with 3.0 covers and sensors. I don't trust the stock ECU's ignition management, since I see lots of fluctuations in timing. Nitrous does not like erratic ignition timing. I don't care about variable cam timing, since I care about only 4500 and up. I'm not interested in re-wiring the car to use any 3.5 ECU - too much overhead.

I want:
To be able to control the ignition timing based strictly on sensors as a reference. To be able to raise the rev limit to 8,000, and maybe beyond.

I wonder if:
3.5 sensors could be added to my 3.0/3.5 so that the Haltech could provide ignition and injector signals.


Seems pretty simple....

 

I understand what you are saying.


I think the S2K would run 3.0 stuff , if it does then your golden!


#1 Verify the Haltech Platinum Sport 2000 can run VQ30.

 

I am still quite lost as to why you think it can't run a 3.0???

 

99% sure they dont have the crank ref and cam signals from a vq30.

 

Didnt say i dont think it wont run 3.0. IM just not 100% sure it can!


It SHOULD but its best to verify!


From the Manual:


Crank and Cam Position Sensors (Trigger and Home)
The Crank and Cam Position sensors are required so that the ECU has the necessary
information available to it to determine engine speed and position at any point in time.
Generally 2 sensors are required - a cam position and crank position.
However many cars will have just a cam position sensor that is capable of giving the ECU
enough information to run the engine correctly. Vehicles that have a crank position
sensor only are not capable of determining the difference between compression
stroke and exhaust stroke and therefore are not suitable for sequential fire
applications. In this case a cam position sensor may need to be added for the ECU
to determine if the engine is on compression or exhaust stroke.



The main thing i see being a issue is getting the settings right.

 

Yup, that the first problem. I have contacted a performance shop in Wichita KS that handles Haltech, and asked the same questions about connecting the 2000 model to a VQ30. I await their answer with anticipation - OK, with some remote hope....

If I don't like what I hear, I'll move on to a shop in Tulsa, then to shops in Arlington and Plano TX. Somebody's gotta know....

SurraTT, from your quote from the 2000's manual, I wonder if the 3.5 cam sensors on the heads would be enough to sync up the Haltech, or would the 3.5 crank sensor and flywheel also be needed?

 

^ Yep



Why not just talk to Haltech?


I can email the guy i talk to there.

 

That would be great. I was fishing for a shop who knows a lot about the Haltech so I can find out just how far I can take a 2000 for total ECU replacement. Frankly, I don't want to figure out every detail, because that would take more time than I have this year.

 

I received this reply today.

"Hello! It would take quite a bit of wiring work obviously, but yes the
Haltech 2000 is the perfect ecu for a 6 cylinder with direct fire and
sequential fuel injection. The only thing I am unaware of is how many stock
functions would be affected by taking out the stock ecu and replacing it.
On other cars (Lexus IS300) we cannot take out the stock ecu and essentially
wire up the Haltech to pickup the cam/crank/MAF/MAP sensors and control the
coils and injectors totally separate from the stock ECU. The stock ecu is
still in the car thinking all is running as it should.

The PS2000 comes in two different flavors. One has a short harness 24" for
wiring into another cars harness at the stock ECU location. The other is a
78" harness intended to wire a race car with. This harness comes with a
small fuse box to power up the ecu as well as a fan relay, fuel pump relay,
etc.

Let me know if we can be of any help!

Ray Yip
Fusionworks Racing
544 S. Illinois St
Wichita, KS 67213
316-393-3278"


Now what do I ask?

 

Well it should work no problem with the VQ30, like i said b4, the hardest part will be getting it set up. Far as trigger type.


In the haltech software there is Nissan Optical and Nissan 350z. So optical would make sense.


The Cam sensor is a 2 wire, i beleive its a Reluctor Sensor

The Crank sensor is a 3 wire, that means hall effect sensor

The Crank REF sensor is a 2 wire, seems to be a reluctor sensor.



The trigger angle, tooth offset, would need to be figured out.

The nice thing is Trigger sensor type and Home sensor type can be selected in haltech ecu manager between the 2 types.


So like i said b4 99% sure the s2k will run vq30 no problem. its just a matter of getting it setup correctly!

 

That's a good analysis - you've been studying this one, haven't you? I just sent a 99 FSM back to Fusionworks along with some Photobucket links of my car, and asked for their estimate of what can be done with the Haltech. I may take the car to Wichita and meet with them if they think they can handle the installation. We shall see... this is gonna be fun!

 

Latest response from Fusionworks:


"More than likely this can be done. There is no feedback from the factory
ecu for ignition or fuel injector outputs. What I would propose is to
simply leave those off and to have the haltech control them. You can
parallel into the crank, and cam sensors usually without problem, but
sometimes it doesn't work out. If that is the case you have to add an
external hall effect sensor with reluctor wheel on the crank pulley to give
the haltech it's own dedicated signal. The factory maf would remain just to
keep the ecu happy, the Haltech will run off the map sensor and speed
density. Resistor type sensors (air temp and water temp) are not happy
being spliced into b/c of the obvious resistance change feeding two
computers. Haltech sensors for these two would have to be added.

We typically use the PS2000 in these situations where the car is a huge
forced induction car where it exceeds anything the factory computer can do.
In your case we MIGHT be able to use a simpler ecu like the sprint 500. The
main thing you need is timing control with the N2O. It intercepts the stock
coil and injector outputs after the computer and allows you to make
percentage changes or actual timing changes without the complexity of an
entire new sensor set and harness. Let me talk to Haltech about this one... "

Encouraging...

 

That is pretty encouraging!

 

Maybe:

" If we are talking forced induction then the PS would be the for sure go to
piece both now and in the future. Let me look at some of the wiring
diagrams. Haltech believes the crank and cam signals are all the same as
the 350Z VQ which they already make base calibrations for. "

I replied:

" Also, I should say thay the Cosworth heads I have installed have
opening for both intake and exhaust cam sensors - but the '99 ECU
doesn't use them. I have installed the 3.0 covers and pans on the built
engine, which is why I have the 3.0 cam sensor there for the ECU.
There is also a front crank sensor used by the ECU. The flywheel
timing teeth are the reason that the 350Z timing setups can't be used
here. Hmmm... a flywheel with both? "

which is where the matter stands right now...

 

Yeah they don't understand that the VQ30 is overcomplicated on the crank/cam signals compared to the VQ35. I have scopes of the signals of Haltech wants them. They are Dandy's, he did it so we could get the most out of the EU; but I don't think he would mind if I posted them up again.

 

Thanks for the offer - I kinda remember those. Put them up and I'll forward them to Ray at Fusionworks. At the least, it will give some useful information. I think that the Haltech reps are at least willing to think about how to do a Haltech 2000 install on my car.

This is starting to become interesting. I'm wondering if making a 350Z flywheel emulator on the crank pulley could work with the 3.5 cam sensors in the heads. Apparently only the Intake sensors are used, and these are allready in place.

We'll see what tomorrow brings.

 

IIRC, you can just get a vq35 auto flex plate. the FWD/RWD have the same ring with 9 notches...

I have to find the files, I formatted my comp and didn't back up everything

 

I didn't know if there is any difference between the VQ35 FWD flex plate timing and the 350Z timing - does the 350Z use the same timing as the Maxima FWD? cause I have one of the 3.5 Maxima flex plates... but I still have to keep the 3.0 timing ring...

Files ?

I do see lots of crank trigger rings being sold - maybe a custom built on the 350Z pattern.

??

 

There are alot of 6speed to 5speed flywheel timing rings being sold. But for auto's i THINK they are the same. Lemme do some quick research:




They look the same to me. So I have no reason to tell you which is which

See the notches of 10? 3 sets total on the ring? The vq30 one has like 180 notches.

Both the cam/crank sensors on the VQ35 are square wave signals, very simple. The Vq30 signals are VERY complex and hard to learn. Plus we have a crank ref/pos and a cam. the 35 only has the crank pos and cam

 

Well, thanks. I hope that if my machinist can copy the 350Z flex plate timing pattern to a pulley-mounted crank trigger, maybe the Haltech will sync up.

 

I've been installing the NX maximizer 3 today. Two pix - one for the arming switch in the cabin, and one of the Maximizer mounting under way.






It proceeds...

 

That controller is awesome!

 

I hope so... there's some heavy wiring to finish up, and I couldn't mount it inside the cabin in a place that makes sense, so it's going under the hood. The master arming switch in the trunk will stay hooked up as a safety feature. Other than that,, I might get the Max in the Max working tomorrow. I think I'll test it with the RPM mode, so that it starts spraying at 4,000 and goes to maximum at 6500. That should be enough to find out how it works.

What do you think about the Haltech project?

 

I just looked at my '03 VQ35 flex plate and then found a couple of pix of 350Z flex plates on eBay, and the timing pattern looks identical! Three groups of 10 notches around the rim on both of them...

So if I can get a crank trigger made for my engine, the Haltech project is possible! I gotta go talk to my machinist.

 

I think for your car it will be essential.
The stock ecu is really limiting your engines potential.

Car should be insane with the haltech.

 

Why do you want to make the trigger on the crank pulley?

Personally, I would let the Haltech control as much as it can. You need to ask them if we get them the scopes of our sensors, if they can add it to their software. That way any VQ30 setup can use it.

 

Haltech already knows how to interface to the 350Z - so setup would be relatively easy. If they are willing to start a development project for the VQ30, it would take much longer - as I recall it took Dandy and Greddy to get the EU to read the VQ30.

If they want to attempt it, I'm willing to go along for a while for the ORG, but I want a final solution in the same calendar year. This will be a $3000-$4000 project and I would prefer that it works - correctly. Anyone else want to jump in and help?

 

Kinda confused then, so you wanna run the 350z style setup with the 99ecu? Or remove the ecu and let the haltech do it all?

I know you can install the VQ35 cam sensor, but they read differently since our intake cam setup is so different than the vq35(unless the vq35 cam sensor reads the exhaust, in that case it should be similar to the vq30 signal).

 

Not confusing - if you go back and look at the comments posted by Ray from Fusionworks, he says that the coil triggers and injectors can be disconnected from the 99 ECU while leaving everything else in place. If sensors can be established for the Haltech, then it can take care of ignition and injectors independently of the factory ECU. Only their sensors for water and air temp would be required for the Haltech to work - and of course their integrated MAP sensor.

 

Doh!, gotcha. In my mind I was still thinking you needed a crank AND cam signal to make the haltech work. But it seems you only need a crank signal. I would definitely look and see if they can just use our factory flywheel timing ring. It is a very basic square wave signal and iirc, we have 180 teeth. Should be very easy for the haltech to read and decipher.

Another thing, you will have to put some resistors on the coils to make the ecu sense a load so you don't get a CEL.

 

But is the 3.0 flex plate keyed to the flywheel? I think it's not. The 3.0 uses the front crank sensor to detect "home" or whatever and the 180 teeth for another part of the timing stuff... The 3.5 is keyed, with an extra crank pin and mating hole in the flex plate. Dunno what that might mean.

Yeah, I know that I'll need 330 ohm resistors for the coils and, just to be safe, 40 ohm resistors for the empty injector connections.

I don't known how many people would be interested in the Haltech, anyway. They're kinda pricy.... If all I need is a correct crank trigger plate, then I'll try that - while it's still 2011.

I just finished wiring in the NX Max3 controller, and everything seems to be working in the driveway. Maybe later tonight I'll go for a drive....

 

So how was the drive?

 

No joy tonight - other things came up. maybe tomorrow....