Un-Built VQ35??? Boost??calling out those who have blown them
10-12-2009, 09:54 PM
#1
Un-Built VQ35??? Boost??calling out those who have blown them
So I have a 97 swapped VQ35 ith 3.0 timing. Thinking about starting tpo piece together a power adder as money permits. and by power adder im thinking turbo or n2o
i have seen a ser altima boosted with a gt35 at 8 psi and it made around 380 from what i remember. but it was auto and shortly after getting beat by a vq3.0T
he took the kit off. he was boosted for about 3-4 months so im not sure how long that 3.5 will live.
im wondering whats the most boost TURBO guys ar running on the stock bottom end 3.5s??? how much power can these engines safely take??
100 shot wet is the other option, but i hate refilling , turbo never runs out
thanks for the input guys
i have seen a ser altima boosted with a gt35 at 8 psi and it made around 380 from what i remember. but it was auto and shortly after getting beat by a vq3.0T
he took the kit off. he was boosted for about 3-4 months so im not sure how long that 3.5 will live.im wondering whats the most boost TURBO guys ar running on the stock bottom end 3.5s??? how much power can these engines safely take??
100 shot wet is the other option, but i hate refilling , turbo never runs out
thanks for the input guys
10-12-2009, 11:36 PM
#2
There is a forced induction section on my350z.com that I frequent to learn more about the vq35. 380-400 on boost is okay but any more than that it and you will need rods. They seem to be a weak point on these engines once you start adding boost and start to exceed 400 whp. Chernmax's engine acted up because of piston rings but when he broke the engine down some of the rods were bent as well. Chern's rod pics
A list of 50 boosted vq35 setups, mostly stock blocks.
A list of 50 boosted vq35 setups, mostly stock blocks.
Last edited by maxgtr2000; 10-13-2009 at 12:12 AM.
10-13-2009, 09:33 AM
#3
Yea I alvaro there is a thread that has a list of everyone that has boosted their stock blocks and they show how many miles it lasted, at what boost they were at, and if they are still driving with it.
Cliffnotes from that thread: dont go above 400whp (although some have and still running around, better to be safe).
Cliffnotes from that thread: dont go above 400whp (although some have and still running around, better to be safe).
10-13-2009, 05:40 PM
#4
I'm on 9psi and methanol injection... I'm going to try an 11psi pulley in the next coming weeks. I'll keep you in mind when i blow it up lol
edit::i just realized you asked for turbo guys lol.
edit::i just realized you asked for turbo guys lol.
Last edited by emdot; 10-13-2009 at 06:18 PM.
10-13-2009, 05:51 PM
#5
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 128
My old block saw double digits on occasion, however 6-10psi was my 'safe' range. Good tuning matters so much more than pressure. Rock solid tune on a dyno, or road tuning - crucial. Get it done on C16 then go back and do your timing map on your pump gas. You can skimp on the 'build' if you're not going for a serious power goal, but don't cut corners with your tuning.
My old 3.5 eventually gave and I have a new one, but the last one was worsening due to oil consumption, not boost.
My old 3.5 eventually gave and I have a new one, but the last one was worsening due to oil consumption, not boost.
Last edited by digitalbow; 10-13-2009 at 05:53 PM.
10-13-2009, 06:44 PM
#6
dam, not sure a 350 whp turbo car will be faster than a 100 shot of Nitrous car , will have to do some thinking for sure, altough 350 whp will always be there and will never run out.I will def look into the 350z forum, has anyone got away with standard size pistons???
streetz did you go over sized at all or stock bore? your main and rod bearings are standard or did they need machining ?
streetz did you go over sized at all or stock bore? your main and rod bearings are standard or did they need machining ?
10-13-2009, 10:51 PM
#7
I have no intention of building my 3.5 and I am going to run in the 450whp ish range, maybe more if I feel frisky once the setup is completed and worked out if it's not putting down the track times I'm looking for. Of my buddies with 350zs, all of them are boosted (4) and all of them have made more than 470whp on the stock motor, none of them have broken. All of them have been boosted for 2-5 years on the stock motor, and none of these guys have ever been accused of babying their cars. They race and they race a lot. If your tune is there, the engine will stay there. Don't rev it past stock redline though is my advice. I think that's the main failure point for most VQ35s with boost these days. Dinky rod bolts, not dinky rods.
10-14-2009, 03:19 AM
#8
I have no intention of building my 3.5 and I am going to run in the 450whp ish range, maybe more if I feel frisky once the setup is completed and worked out if it's not putting down the track times I'm looking for. Of my buddies with 350zs, all of them are boosted (4) and all of them have made more than 470whp on the stock motor, none of them have broken. All of them have been boosted for 2-5 years on the stock motor, and none of these guys have ever been accused of babying their cars. They race and they race a lot. If your tune is there, the engine will stay there. Don't rev it past stock redline though is my advice. I think that's the main failure point for most VQ35s with boost these days. Dinky rod bolts, not dinky rods.
10-14-2009, 03:51 AM
#9
just read up on the z forum, looks like the DE's are done safely at about 400-420 range, people have seen more and also have in time bent the rods, not blown the engines. BUT the HR engines can take well above 450 ....
also read some crazy *** dudes actually drop 20k on a non built turbo kit at shops making about 420, whp, and you can expect 30k for 600 whp built engine setups...godam, who would not drop that money on a freaking supra, or z06... dam crazy... but im sure thats people that get their oil changes and tune ups done at that local goodyear for madddd looot....
also read some crazy *** dudes actually drop 20k on a non built turbo kit at shops making about 420, whp, and you can expect 30k for 600 whp built engine setups...godam, who would not drop that money on a freaking supra, or z06... dam crazy... but im sure thats people that get their oil changes and tune ups done at that local goodyear for madddd looot....
10-14-2009, 11:21 AM
#10
dam, not sure a 350 whp turbo car will be faster than a 100 shot of Nitrous car , will have to do some thinking for sure, altough 350 whp will always be there and will never run out.I will def look into the 350z forum, has anyone got away with standard size pistons???
streetz did you go over sized at all or stock bore? your main and rod bearings are standard or did they need machining ?
streetz did you go over sized at all or stock bore? your main and rod bearings are standard or did they need machining ?
Also for the main and rod bearings I went with standard, just had it micropolished. I also measured it myself with a Micrometer and it was exactly the same as the FSM specs showed. I used ACL standard vq35 sized bearings.
You wont have issues with standard size pistons, i havent heared of a single case that a piston has had issues even stock (except for bad tune, user error). I would listen to Neal, its def in the tune, which means your going to need to invest in some tuning equipment. J&S Safeguard (seriously recommend it) which you can retard timing with it, keeping your SAFC will work but i recommend a stronger device such as the EU.
and yea man them Z guys put down insane amounts of money for their builds. My engine build cost me 2600 at most, lets say 3k. They spend 15k for the same build lol, although most of the time they buy brand new blocks and heads, etc... that alone is a few thousand. $15k(just on the motor) for 450whp lmao that's laughable.
Last edited by streetzlegend; 10-14-2009 at 11:25 AM.
10-14-2009, 12:22 PM
#11
I went with 96mm (stock is 95.5mm), but the only reason i went with bigger bore was to clean the walls, there were a couple scratches here and there.
Also for the main and rod bearings I went with standard, just had it micropolished. I also measured it myself with a Micrometer and it was exactly the same as the FSM specs showed. I used ACL standard vq35 sized bearings.
You wont have issues with standard size pistons, i havent heared of a single case that a piston has had issues even stock (except for bad tune, user error). I would listen to Neal, its def in the tune, which means your going to need to invest in some tuning equipment. J&S Safeguard (seriously recommend it) which you can retard timing with it, keeping your SAFC will work but i recommend a stronger device such as the EU.
and yea man them Z guys put down insane amounts of money for their builds. My engine build cost me 2600 at most, lets say 3k. They spend 15k for the same build lol, although most of the time they buy brand new blocks and heads, etc... that alone is a few thousand. $15k(just on the motor) for 450whp lmao that's laughable.
Also for the main and rod bearings I went with standard, just had it micropolished. I also measured it myself with a Micrometer and it was exactly the same as the FSM specs showed. I used ACL standard vq35 sized bearings.
You wont have issues with standard size pistons, i havent heared of a single case that a piston has had issues even stock (except for bad tune, user error). I would listen to Neal, its def in the tune, which means your going to need to invest in some tuning equipment. J&S Safeguard (seriously recommend it) which you can retard timing with it, keeping your SAFC will work but i recommend a stronger device such as the EU.
and yea man them Z guys put down insane amounts of money for their builds. My engine build cost me 2600 at most, lets say 3k. They spend 15k for the same build lol, although most of the time they buy brand new blocks and heads, etc... that alone is a few thousand. $15k(just on the motor) for 450whp lmao that's laughable.
im not sure i will build something, i think id be happy back at the 390-400 whp which according to Neal and the Z site is about the max safe whp. so for now, ill start looking for good stuff cheap,
10-14-2009, 01:14 PM
#12
ok, so in theory one can get away with droping stock sized forged pistons and rods, polish them up , balance the rotatiing assembly and the build should be relatively non expensive at the end of the day if everything measures up.
im not sure i will build something, i think id be happy back at the 390-400 whp which according to Neal and the Z site is about the max safe whp. so for now, ill start looking for good stuff cheap,
im not sure i will build something, i think id be happy back at the 390-400 whp which according to Neal and the Z site is about the max safe whp. so for now, ill start looking for good stuff cheap,
OR, put in a VQ30DEK and run 20psi on that ***** all day lol.
10-14-2009, 01:26 PM
#13
thanks, man,im taking everyones advise. just keep hearing bad things about the rods (no bolts) , even from nissan master tech's who know these engines. they have told me they lightend (weakend) the rods in order to get more rev from these engine. ??? i will have to do some research, i heard a lot of these go out after about 420 sh.. im still not buying the rod bolt story. rod bolts are an easy fix. any of those 470 whp daily abusers out by DC area? do they have 2 diff boost maps or they run 470 on pump gas?? sund like a 15-16 boost horsepower more or less, hard to believe on stock engine, reliably atleast,, but ill definitely research for sure
a HUGE majority of the guys that have blown motors recently have been revving past the stock redline. i've researched it extensively in addition to having firsthand knowledge of my 4 guys that I know, I'm banking the longevity of my motor on it. I'm convinced.
what a nissan master tech has to say about it is generally of very little value in these discussions, dealer techs usually don't know their **** from a hole in the ground when it comes to mods and pushing the limits, unless they are involved in modifying cars themselves, which most of them are not.
Last edited by Nealoc187; 10-14-2009 at 01:31 PM.
10-14-2009, 08:40 PM
#17
......
a HUGE majority of the guys that have blown motors recently have been revving past the stock redline. i've researched it extensively in addition to having firsthand knowledge of my 4 guys that I know, I'm banking the longevity of my motor on it. I'm convinced.
what a nissan master tech has to say about it is generally of very little value in these discussions, dealer techs usually don't know their **** from a hole in the ground when it comes to mods and pushing the limits, unless they are involved in modifying cars themselves, which most of them are not.
a HUGE majority of the guys that have blown motors recently have been revving past the stock redline. i've researched it extensively in addition to having firsthand knowledge of my 4 guys that I know, I'm banking the longevity of my motor on it. I'm convinced.
what a nissan master tech has to say about it is generally of very little value in these discussions, dealer techs usually don't know their **** from a hole in the ground when it comes to mods and pushing the limits, unless they are involved in modifying cars themselves, which most of them are not.
10-15-2009, 03:33 AM
#19
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (29)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Middleboro/Carver, Ma
Posts: 4,572
10char
Very interesting post from Intense Motorsports over on my350z today:
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=269
Excerpts:
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=269
Excerpts:
Our 906whp stock sleeve, stock head gaskets, stock crank, stock ignition, standard ARP head studs, VQ35de was the first VQ we EVER built. We did ZERO research in what other builders were, had, or are doing. An engine is an engine. We didn't need to know what others had done because 95% of the builders still haven't achieved what we have in engineering.
(I can qualify and quantify this statement by the fact that we've had our hands in Adam Saruwatari's low 7-second 3.2L V6 NSX motor for over 6 years now)
http://www.carandmodel.com/featuredcar/4.php
If we had, wouldn't you agree that we would have upgraded the head studs to L19 or better?
Wouldn't you agree that we would have upgraded the head gaskets to HKS, or an alternative?
Wouldn't you agree that we would have upgraded the ignition to HKS, or an alternative?
ProEFI, PowerLab, and Intense teamed together to find the limitations of the stock block. Instead of reading up on what everyone else had done, and what was considered "true", we wanted to find out ourselves. On a completely bone stock motor, we bent every single rod at 540ft/tq and 600whp (perfect tune!). At that time the motor was pulled and stock bore pistons and after market rods were put in -- no machining to the block was done whatsoever.
At this time the testing of the stock sleeves was in order. The first test was with the PowerLab GT35R. We maxed the turbo out at 650whp. The next test was with the GT37R. We maxed that turbo out at just over 700whp. The final test was the 76S, which maxed out our clutch at 906whp -- sleeves still perfect! Again, all of these TESTS were with the stock block, no machine work, stock sleeves, stock head gaskets, stock ignition, stock crank. As you can see, we wanted to not only keep everything as stock as possible to be as true of a test as possible, but also to keep it cheap -- as to show everyone that with off the shelf parts, efficient off the shelf turbo system (PowerLab GT35R), and off the shelf engine management (ProEFI 48), reliable, high horsepower can be obtained by anyone!
You are correct that we learned the majority of our engineering from building 2zj-gte motors over the years -- and that's where the majority of our "expendable $$$" ended. We've also built 1400whp Viper motors, 1000whp 20b motors, and many many others. The common threads that links all of these successful motor builds are 2 things:
1. Efficient turbo systems
2. Efficient engine management (AEM at that time -- the designer of which, Jason Siebels, who quit AEM to start his own company.. ProEFI)
We took this philosophy and applied it to our first VQ build -- which still holds the world record for stock sleeve, stock crank VQ at 906whp. The SAME motor is in the world's quickest/fastest G35 coupe (11.00 @ 128mph) at only 600whp!
(I can qualify and quantify this statement by the fact that we've had our hands in Adam Saruwatari's low 7-second 3.2L V6 NSX motor for over 6 years now)
http://www.carandmodel.com/featuredcar/4.php
If we had, wouldn't you agree that we would have upgraded the head studs to L19 or better?
Wouldn't you agree that we would have upgraded the head gaskets to HKS, or an alternative?
Wouldn't you agree that we would have upgraded the ignition to HKS, or an alternative?
ProEFI, PowerLab, and Intense teamed together to find the limitations of the stock block. Instead of reading up on what everyone else had done, and what was considered "true", we wanted to find out ourselves. On a completely bone stock motor, we bent every single rod at 540ft/tq and 600whp (perfect tune!). At that time the motor was pulled and stock bore pistons and after market rods were put in -- no machining to the block was done whatsoever.
At this time the testing of the stock sleeves was in order. The first test was with the PowerLab GT35R. We maxed the turbo out at 650whp. The next test was with the GT37R. We maxed that turbo out at just over 700whp. The final test was the 76S, which maxed out our clutch at 906whp -- sleeves still perfect! Again, all of these TESTS were with the stock block, no machine work, stock sleeves, stock head gaskets, stock ignition, stock crank. As you can see, we wanted to not only keep everything as stock as possible to be as true of a test as possible, but also to keep it cheap -- as to show everyone that with off the shelf parts, efficient off the shelf turbo system (PowerLab GT35R), and off the shelf engine management (ProEFI 48), reliable, high horsepower can be obtained by anyone!
You are correct that we learned the majority of our engineering from building 2zj-gte motors over the years -- and that's where the majority of our "expendable $$$" ended. We've also built 1400whp Viper motors, 1000whp 20b motors, and many many others. The common threads that links all of these successful motor builds are 2 things:
1. Efficient turbo systems
2. Efficient engine management (AEM at that time -- the designer of which, Jason Siebels, who quit AEM to start his own company.. ProEFI)
We took this philosophy and applied it to our first VQ build -- which still holds the world record for stock sleeve, stock crank VQ at 906whp. The SAME motor is in the world's quickest/fastest G35 coupe (11.00 @ 128mph) at only 600whp!
10-16-2009, 04:17 PM
#21
for 600whp i think he still needs new oem rings and bearings and possibly HR headgaskets and bolts.
10-17-2009, 08:26 PM
#22
These guys are all in the chicago area, and all of them run (or ran) on pump gas. Whether you buy it or not, it's the truth. Briguymax, phunk, James, and McDerns are their names on my350z. all of them ran mid to high 11s @ 120+ on pump gas on their stock motors, none of them ever blew a motor. APS TT, Greddy TT, APS Single, and Greddy TT kits respectively, 10lbs boost for the twins and 12lbs for the APS single - all on pump gas. none of us bother with race gas. When I say "blew a motor" i mean had *any* problems. you bed a rod and have to replace it, that counts as blowing a motor in my book. how well it is tuned is the determining factor.
a HUGE majority of the guys that have blown motors recently have been revving past the stock redline. i've researched it extensively in addition to having firsthand knowledge of my 4 guys that I know, I'm banking the longevity of my motor on it. I'm convinced.
what a nissan master tech has to say about it is generally of very little value in these discussions, dealer techs usually don't know their **** from a hole in the ground when it comes to mods and pushing the limits, unless they are involved in modifying cars themselves, which most of them are not.
a HUGE majority of the guys that have blown motors recently have been revving past the stock redline. i've researched it extensively in addition to having firsthand knowledge of my 4 guys that I know, I'm banking the longevity of my motor on it. I'm convinced.
what a nissan master tech has to say about it is generally of very little value in these discussions, dealer techs usually don't know their **** from a hole in the ground when it comes to mods and pushing the limits, unless they are involved in modifying cars themselves, which most of them are not.
ill ignore the master techs comment, let just say these guys build nissans , and not stock.
so , can you provide some additional information as to what these cars are using for tuning? size of a sigle turbo? do these motors have turbos that load the engine gradually? etc...and besides timing control in order to not have knock and the afr, what else would you consider very important on the tune??? evbryone says the tune is very important??? what afr are they tuning the engines to?
i want to know the secret to this how well, bc if a car makes power, doesnt have ANY detonation, and has good afr, then, is it porperly tuned or not?
im sure guys that have blown engines were not all running there cars with audible pinging and saying "**** ii nothing will happen"
any addtional information as far as setup would be greatly appreciated.
I dont plan on extending my limiter, when you make power that is not needed.
you pm me the additional info
10-17-2009, 08:42 PM
#23
i want 400whp that i can push everyday of the week for the next 5 yrs, lol lol forget 600whp. yeah, looks like they did it with arp headstuds only. isnt there vid on youtube wher a z made a 300 hp shot pass, but eventually blew, not sure how reliable it would be at 600whp, eventually it would give, maybe not in a couple dyno pulls during testing?????, i want to talk to some people and get specific setup data and more info before embarking on this ..
Abdala, i want to see the 1/4 vid soon.. common man , do it
Abdala, i want to see the 1/4 vid soon.. common man , do it
10-22-2009, 11:37 AM
#24
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Space City
Posts: 56
The rule of thumb on the VQ is 10psi max. Go anymore than that and you shorten the life of the engine dramaticly. (stock block)
Another thing to think about is what ems you are running. A better ems (haltech plat, hks vpro, etc) will insure a better tune and increase longevity. I ran a UTEC on my Z when NA/nitrous and early boost. I hated it on boost. immediately ripped that **** out for a vpro...it was night and day. So you if you want your VQ to last, don't skimp on engine management. I'd run lower boost if I were running anything but a stand alone. My buddy ran his 350Z with a 100 shot for a year and then threw on twins @ 10psi (490whp) and drove it like that for a year before he ever built the motor. He was running the VPRO.
and filling the nitrous bottle may suck, but the added issues of boost being in the equation sucks alot harder than filling up the bottle. gas mileage gets worse on boost too. If you never plan on building the motor, I'd suggest 100 shot.
Another thing to think about is what ems you are running. A better ems (haltech plat, hks vpro, etc) will insure a better tune and increase longevity. I ran a UTEC on my Z when NA/nitrous and early boost. I hated it on boost. immediately ripped that **** out for a vpro...it was night and day. So you if you want your VQ to last, don't skimp on engine management. I'd run lower boost if I were running anything but a stand alone. My buddy ran his 350Z with a 100 shot for a year and then threw on twins @ 10psi (490whp) and drove it like that for a year before he ever built the motor. He was running the VPRO.
and filling the nitrous bottle may suck, but the added issues of boost being in the equation sucks alot harder than filling up the bottle. gas mileage gets worse on boost too. If you never plan on building the motor, I'd suggest 100 shot.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
litch
4th Generation Maxima (1995-1999)
123
01-04-2024 07:01 PM
bigfrank
4th Generation Maxima (1995-1999)
2
10-01-2015 12:51 PM