Perseus

my brother just got back from cali and he had a pretty solid grasp on how to isolate the problem

-after testing the jumper, we still weren't getting any response
-to remove any doubts he had with the starter/solenoid, he ran a wire directly from the battery to the starter solenoid. fortunately it immediately cranked
-he then checked the cable going from the battery to the solenoid and that tested good as well
-at this point we knew it had to be something before port 7 in the inhibitor relay
-the next thing he checked was if the ignition switch was giving a signal when the key turned, and it did
-lastly, we ran a wire directly from the ignition switch to port 7, and after turning the key, the car immediately started

he said the final step would be to either replace the wires/connections between the ignition switch and the inhibitor relay, or to just run an entirely new, continuous wire from the ignition switch to the inhibitor relay. any opinions on what to do?

Perseus

as of now, the plan is to splice one end of a new wire onto the green/black wire of the ignition switch(the wire which is associated with start) and splice the other end onto the wire which feeds into port 6

on the wiring diagram port 6 is directly connected to the ignition switch, so there shouldn't be anything wrong with doing this... i already ran a 10 gauge wire through the firewall to the relay box, but before i cut into the wire i want to make sure what i'm doing won't have any negative results

asand1

iTrader: (1)

Try running a jumper wire from 6 to 7 to eliminate anti theft and park neutral switch.

bobflood

Perseus: OK - I assume that you mean that when you installed the jumper wire between 6 and 7, the situation didn't change - that is, the car still did not start. That is good - you have eliminated the anti-theft relay and park/neutral switch and associated wiring as being the problem! Progress!!

According to the wiring diagram I am looking at (1997, auto trans) the wire from the ignition switch (port 5) to port 6 on the inhibitor relay is black/white, NOT green/white. The green/white wire goes from port 4 on the inhibitor relay to the cruise control. Once you make sure that you have the correct wire, running a new wire from the ignition switch START terminal to Port 6 on the inhibitor relay should be fine. Hopefully, this will permanetly fix your problem.

BTW, since this is a control circuit, and does not carry the amps to turn the starter, 10 gauge wire is way overkill. It won't hurt to use that big a wire, but a lighter one might be easier to run. Please report back when you have finally beaten this issue!!

Perseus

thanks again. and the wire on the ignition switch itself is green/black. i did recognize that the wire which leads to port 6 is black/white though

i think i'd feel safer with the 10 gauge...already put it in and i don't have any smaller wires that i would trust (just some dinky speaker wire with barely any insulation, and i don't even know what gauges they are)

and to add in the new wire, would it be alright to just cut the original wire off and solder the new one in its place? originally i planned to use one of these to keep the original wire in tact, but local stores don't carry any in the size i need.

just being cautious; i don't want to cut wires only to find out they feed somewhere else as well

bobflood

Perseus - what year, model and transmissionis your car?? According to info I am looking at (1997 auto), there is no green/black wire on the ignition switch. Just make SURE that you have the correct wire on the ignition switch. You don't have to cut the old wire at all; best would be to just splice the new wire on at both ends. (I'm not even sure you would have room to splice a 10 gauge wire on either of those switches - buy yourself a coil of 16 guage and some of those taps would be best solution.)

According to my wiring diagram, here are wires on ignition:
1 White/Purple Brings 12V into switch from main power panel
2 White/Blue Feeds Accessories
3 Black/Red Feeds "ON" and Ignition
4 Red/Yellow Feeds "On" and Other Systems
5 Black/White Feeds Inhibitor and Starter Relays
6 Red/Blue Feeds "ON" while Starting
Good luck!!

Perseus

there's a green/back wire on the ignition switch, not the cluster of wires connecting to the ignition switch in the steering column. they didn't follow the same color code apparently (and i'm certain it was the right wire, we saw that it corresponded to start, and ofc the car started after touching that wire) i planned to splice the new wire onto the green/back wire on the ignition switch because i don't know whether or not the connector in the steering column is part of the problem

bobflood

OK, sounds like a plan - let us know how it works. What is your year and tranny, BTW?

Perseus

sorry for the late response. just had midterms/presentations. it's a 97 auto

well i got the splicers last weekend. i've never used them before and i ended up malforming one and completely breaking the other while trying to install it lol. for whatever reason i didn't think ahead, and i only bought 2 despite the fact that they were a quarter a piece -.-

well i ordered enough to cover a few rounds of mistakes and they came in today. unfortunately with them in place the car has a weak start. with a wire directly connecting port 6 and the ignition switch the start is healthy so i know i either installed them poorly or didn't completely eliminate the issue...

bobflood

Still making progress. Assuming you spliced the new wire to the existing wire near it's terminations on port 6 and the ignition switch? Then cut the old wire at one end or the other? If this is what you did, then the only old places left to still cause the trouble are the actual terminations on the solenoid and ignition switch. I have forgotten - did you already replace the ignition switch connector on the end of the ignition lock cylinder??

Perseus

all i did was add on those yellow splicers to port 6 and the ignition switch, and run a new wire between those two points. i didn't make cuts anywhere

and i'm not sure what your last question is asking...but thanks for all of your help so far

bobflood

Seems like you should be getting close to a resolution.

Perseus

with my test wire i placed one end inside of port 6, where the relay would be plugged in (i had a jumper from 6-7) and i touched the other end to the back of the ignition switch, where the solder is. it started perfectly fine like that


the ignition switch has been installed for about a year now. i could see the connector being a problem which is why i spliced the wire above that, but that was only a guess. not sure if that would eliminate any issues brought by that

what do you think about ditching the splicers and just soldering the new wire on?

bobflood

OK - as I understand it, when you ran the new wire directly into port 6 from above (where the relay plugs in) it worked fine, but when you spliced the same new wire into the exisitng wire feeding port 6 from below it doesn't work - is that correct? Sounds like the problem has been sectionalized and is in the port 6 connector in the relay box. I would next unbolt that relay box and carefully lift it up to where you can see/access the port 6 connection from below. The intermittant and temp related aspect of the problem (i.e works fine when cold, not when hot) makes me suspect that something is expanding when it gets hot and interrupting the connection at that point. I can't really recommend a fix w/o seeing it; I think at this point I would take it to an auto electrical shop, explain all you have done to isolate the problem, and let a pro figure out how best to fix it. Good luck; let us know how you resolve.

Perseus

the car starts consistently with the splice, but the starter isn't as strong as it should be (the rev leading up to the start is weaker and longer). my brother suggests that this is an issue with the splicing itself, and that i don't have anything to lose if i just solder the wire. but like you said, it could also be the connector to port 6, so i don't want to take any other action until i get input from someone other than him

bobflood

This part of the circuit will have nothing to do with the "strenght" of the starter. All it does is energize the solenoid that closes the contacts that bring the stater motor current thru the big wires to the motor. Make sure that your "big wire" connections from the battery to the starter motor and the ground connection where the starter bolts to the transmission are all clean and free of corrosion. Also, if you have been doing a lot of testing and cranking of the starter motor your battery could be a little weak, so make sure it is well charged.

Perseus

i'm assuming it was the battery. drove around a bit and it seems to be starting better. and above that, it's starting 100% of the time now i guess the only thing left to do is drive around for a while to see if that really did get rid of the problem. thanks for the help again

on a side note, when i was looking around the engine bay i found a hidden hose unplugged around the IACV and putting that back in its place finally got rid of a code i've been getting for the past few months

bobflood

Excellent! Glad you stuck with it and finally got it fixed. Happy motoring!