Cattman 3" Catback Exhaust (New resonated version) - Order here!
03-19-2013, 02:01 PM
#121
I don't use stainless steel packing because I've learned from experience. It has nothing to do with expense. We used stainless steel-wool packed resonators for a few years. It lasts a long time, but so does the quality of the fibreglass we use, particularly when it is packed densely. The primary problem with stainless wool is that cubic inch for cubic inch, it doesn't muffle sound nearly as well as the fibreglass does (and the space limitations prevent making it larger), so the volume is louder and the tone is harsher too. Store-bought resonators are louder after a year, but we've never had an issue with the fibreglass-packed units we make.
Don't take what I said that seriously, its just my sense of humor. When I talk about the perils of exhaust shops, its done somewhat tongue-in-cheek, because there are obviously reasons that most of us will have to go to places like that. But at another level, I'm perfectly serious. I've been listening to customers' exhaust shop horror stories for 15 years. Most exhaust shops are pretty incompetent when it comes to the quality of exhaust work that performance enthusiasts are looking for - installation can be spotty and custom work can turn into a nightmare.
Only a tiny % of exhaust shops can TIG-weld or work with stainless steel; both capabilities are key for custom or performance exhaust fabrication. Sometimes I will tell customers to screen exhaust shops by asking if they do TIG welding, it can help separate the shops with special talents from the ones that live off of taking advantage of soccer moms with worn-out minivan exhausts.
Not all shops are incompetent, but many are. That said, my point is not to avoid all exhaust shops, its to be careful about selecting the one you do go to. [I obviously didn't mean "stay away" literally, since most of our customers will have to take their catbacks to exhaust shops for installation.] When talking with customers I suggest finding out where the local BMW club members take their cars for performance exhaust work because those guys demand good work, but won't pay the prices that the exotic car owners do.
I think the BRM catback "system" has been pretty thoroughly discussed on this forum. Its fine if someone wants to spend a bit less money, but its not in the same league as ours. [Leak-prone slip-fit connections instead of flanges, and a grossly undersized resonator would head the list.] The price is 75% of what our catback costs, but it probably costs half of what ours does to produce. Very little labor in a system like that.
Yes, our systems are expensive, but that's a function of how they are made, not anyone's profit margin. Yes, there is filet mignon, but that's for the customer, represented by the superior part that no one else has ever, or will ever, produce. My share of this is more like hamburger helper. If you combined my profit with the shop's it still wouldn't equal the % most companies spend on marketing alone.
As far as Cattman simply being a middleman, its quite a bit more complicated than that since I do most of the design work, but surprise - that's how business is done these days. My exhaust partner runs a superior operation and makes parts for some of the best-known and highly regarded performance parts specialists (that also do their own manufacturing) in the US. The difference is that my manufacturer is only 500 miles away and is fully accountable to me - most other companies are subbing out work an ocean away, in a production facility they've never visited, using metal stock that could not be certified here.
Finally, sometimes it seems people forget, or don't understand, how the free market works, so I'll make two points.
1) If I was making an obscene profit on the parts that I sell (above and beyond the cost of making the parts), someone else would have stepped in and offered equivalent parts for less money. This has never happened. Our standards are too high and our profit margin is too small.
2) Nothing wrong with a preference for cheap parts, but there are always trade-offs and they have been discussed thoroughly in this forum. If there wasn't a part of the performance market that demanded the level of quality we provide, and recognized the difference between value and price, Cattman Performance wouldn't exist. But there is, and we do.
Don't take what I said that seriously, its just my sense of humor. When I talk about the perils of exhaust shops, its done somewhat tongue-in-cheek, because there are obviously reasons that most of us will have to go to places like that. But at another level, I'm perfectly serious. I've been listening to customers' exhaust shop horror stories for 15 years. Most exhaust shops are pretty incompetent when it comes to the quality of exhaust work that performance enthusiasts are looking for - installation can be spotty and custom work can turn into a nightmare.
Only a tiny % of exhaust shops can TIG-weld or work with stainless steel; both capabilities are key for custom or performance exhaust fabrication. Sometimes I will tell customers to screen exhaust shops by asking if they do TIG welding, it can help separate the shops with special talents from the ones that live off of taking advantage of soccer moms with worn-out minivan exhausts.
Not all shops are incompetent, but many are. That said, my point is not to avoid all exhaust shops, its to be careful about selecting the one you do go to. [I obviously didn't mean "stay away" literally, since most of our customers will have to take their catbacks to exhaust shops for installation.] When talking with customers I suggest finding out where the local BMW club members take their cars for performance exhaust work because those guys demand good work, but won't pay the prices that the exotic car owners do.
I think the BRM catback "system" has been pretty thoroughly discussed on this forum. Its fine if someone wants to spend a bit less money, but its not in the same league as ours. [Leak-prone slip-fit connections instead of flanges, and a grossly undersized resonator would head the list.] The price is 75% of what our catback costs, but it probably costs half of what ours does to produce. Very little labor in a system like that.
Yes, our systems are expensive, but that's a function of how they are made, not anyone's profit margin. Yes, there is filet mignon, but that's for the customer, represented by the superior part that no one else has ever, or will ever, produce. My share of this is more like hamburger helper. If you combined my profit with the shop's it still wouldn't equal the % most companies spend on marketing alone.
As far as Cattman simply being a middleman, its quite a bit more complicated than that since I do most of the design work, but surprise - that's how business is done these days. My exhaust partner runs a superior operation and makes parts for some of the best-known and highly regarded performance parts specialists (that also do their own manufacturing) in the US. The difference is that my manufacturer is only 500 miles away and is fully accountable to me - most other companies are subbing out work an ocean away, in a production facility they've never visited, using metal stock that could not be certified here.
Finally, sometimes it seems people forget, or don't understand, how the free market works, so I'll make two points.
1) If I was making an obscene profit on the parts that I sell (above and beyond the cost of making the parts), someone else would have stepped in and offered equivalent parts for less money. This has never happened. Our standards are too high and our profit margin is too small.
2) Nothing wrong with a preference for cheap parts, but there are always trade-offs and they have been discussed thoroughly in this forum. If there wasn't a part of the performance market that demanded the level of quality we provide, and recognized the difference between value and price, Cattman Performance wouldn't exist. But there is, and we do.
Last edited by Cattman; 03-19-2013 at 04:03 PM.
03-19-2013, 03:29 PM
#122
Why some people always got to come screw with a good thing? follow this wisdom
A.If your whining about the price.
1.Your Cheap
2.You aint gots no money
3.Your Cheap and aint got no money and your Jealous
B.If your whining about the Quality and Construction
1.You bought something Cheap for your car and your ashamed of it and wish you could afford the real deal!
2.Your cheap and you know it but you just want to nay say on the real deal. cause you couldn't afford it from jump!
So in conclusion some of us will Eat Kobe Steak (Cattman) and some of us will eat Spam (BRM/Ebay)
A.If your whining about the price.
1.Your Cheap
2.You aint gots no money
3.Your Cheap and aint got no money and your Jealous
B.If your whining about the Quality and Construction
1.You bought something Cheap for your car and your ashamed of it and wish you could afford the real deal!
2.Your cheap and you know it but you just want to nay say on the real deal. cause you couldn't afford it from jump!
So in conclusion some of us will Eat Kobe Steak (Cattman) and some of us will eat Spam (BRM/Ebay)
03-19-2013, 04:36 PM
#124
I feel like I startled something here... Anyways I will never want to buy another aftermarket resonator section unless its made by cattman. Hands down the quality is worth it. Thanks Brian for getting back to me. I own your headers and catback and have no complaints about it. My hat goes to you when you feel the top end power from your products. Looking forward to purchase the resonator section soon!
03-19-2013, 07:52 PM
#127
I had a 3 inch cattman cat back with a fastcatt and it was amazing. Ill repeat what I said when I did get the system shipped to my work. When you work for a Mercedes dealer and have 15 techs and ALL of the techs stand there and STARE at how good it looks and all doubted it being a "bolt on system" and they see I have it installed in less than an hour without reaching for a welder, torch heat gun, nothing except a couple of wrenches and the packs of gaskets that Brian includes along with replacement bolts and anything else needed. They were all blown away, and mind you these are guys who all have formula ford race cars, circle track cars, custom street bikes and mud boggers. it makes you smile knowing they are that happy to see something aftermarket NOT have to butchered to fit and it is a true fit. I am looking to get another one on the next run, I had gotten rid of mine due to almost selling my car, now it is staying since my track toy is here. Ill be in touch soon Brian for this and headers and a y pipe. Game on
03-20-2013, 12:35 AM
#128
Thanks, quickhuh, that's really appreciated...
People outside of the trade don't realize the difficulty in making a series of compound bends follow a tight path and end up in the right place when using bolt-together flanges that don't allow for any slop. As you've so aptly pointed out, those in the trade understand - having struggled with the installation of many ill-fitting aftermarket parts in the past - so I couldn't imagine a better compliment than the scene you've described.
We'll look forward to hearing from you.
People outside of the trade don't realize the difficulty in making a series of compound bends follow a tight path and end up in the right place when using bolt-together flanges that don't allow for any slop. As you've so aptly pointed out, those in the trade understand - having struggled with the installation of many ill-fitting aftermarket parts in the past - so I couldn't imagine a better compliment than the scene you've described.
We'll look forward to hearing from you.
03-20-2013, 01:52 AM
#129
Just got jig material this week.....We had a screw up and man its this thing heavy duty...Anyway I'm gathering everything I need so do give up my plate is full and I'm juggling all of it the best I can...The Hybrid Resonators are gonna be beautifully crafted and high quality.....my test show promise with quietness and sportiness more like a tour package....
03-21-2013, 08:15 PM
#131
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Brandon, FL
Posts: 69
Ikr these things are about to ship correct?? Just ordered my 3" test pipe to install together to eliminate any bottlenecking.
Im very excite!!
Im very excite!!
03-22-2013, 08:45 AM
#132
Best case scenario they would be shipping out to us today/Monday. Haven't gotten any confirmation yet, but Im praying that they will be to us next week. I ordered the fast cat as well, anxious to get it installed and listen to her purrr
03-24-2013, 10:19 AM
#134
Yes, the wrap up was a bit slow because the amount of time required for the resonators was underestimated. I'll receive the shipment on Tuesday, and get the individual orders sent out on Wednesday and Thursday.
Brian
Brian
03-27-2013, 11:07 PM
#137
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3
I concur 100% about the perils of dealing with "muffler shops" (I've seen some ungodly crap done by the "chain" stores and wonder who taught those monkeys how to weld).
I'm going to touch on a few of the "implications" here and make sure I'm not misunderstanding what's been typed:
So true. Our three fabricators have a combined 60 years' experience welding, and their TIG work is top-notch. We're lucky to have these guys for the money we pay them (especially in the US). Overseas work and robotic welds will always be cheaper labor-wise, but we, like you, believe in keeping the work here.
I'd beg to differ. Higher price doesn't always mean better quality. It's often an indicator, but we're all buying the same steel from the same sources in the same open market, at the same market prices.
I made a commitment on Day One (back in 2005) that our prices wouldn't change. We got clobbered when steel prices got ridiculous, and just when we thought we were seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, shipping and transport costs took up the slack. Prices stayed where they started - I don't intend to change that.
If a slip-fit connection is leak-prone, you might want to talk to the engineers who designed the Ti system for the C6. Frankly, a properly-designed slip-fit connection with correct clamps has LESS potential for leaks than a billet flange. We use both, so to say one is better than the other is intellectual dishonesty - it depends on the application.
In the spot where we use a slip-fit, it's because that's a perfect spot to loosely fit the system during installation to get proper alignment before torquing it down... A flange, even a perfectly-aligned one, is a static, fixed location. It also doesn't allow for variances in the underbody hanger locations, which Nissan is notoriously sloppy with (I have measured two B16 Spec V's with 1/2" of variance in hanger location).
As far as "grossly undersized resonators", we've done a gracious plenty homework on this. While we'd prefer a longer resonator for our customers who want a 3" system, Magnaflow simply doesn't make one. Now, we could go with another brand, but I've personally sliced open a LOT of exhaust components, and very few companies make a resonator that meets our standards. We offer a 22" resonator for our customers who select a 2.5" system (obviously, that doesn't apply to the majority of Maxima customers). I'd be curious to know where the longer 3" resonators come from. Not to cast aspersions, but simply because we all like to know what we're buying... whether it's what's in our food or what we bolt onto our car. I'm sure you'd agree.
We don't just pull this stuff out of our behinds. There's a reason for everything, and it's not cost-related.
Speculation and assumption. The labor is the same, with the exception of a couple welds. A bead roll, ball flange, or spinning flange all take time, just like a weld. As far as labor costs, that varies wildly by geographic location, union vs. non-union, and other factors.
I don't recall hearing who manufactures the components in the systems you're producing, but I wonder if that might be an area of unnecessary expense (or perhaps they're cheaper to begin with)?
We've always been very open and transparent about our components (Magnaflow resonators and mufflers). Perhaps I missed something on the website - I'm not going to imply that the mufflers and resonators are "cheap", because I don't know who makes them or where they were sourced from. Having attended AAPEX / SEMA for the past 9 years, and seen most of the stuff that's manufactured in the US and overseas, I have a pretty good idea - but it would be nice for customers to know.
Ditto. A couple differences (neither of which is relevant to the consumer): My shop is 700 miles away 
but I am part owner. Accountability means having skin in the game. If you stopped producing systems tomorrow, he'd remain in business. If I do the same, half the facility closes up, most of the guys go home, and my investment is gone. Just wanted to clarify that.
I *do* agree 100% that the offshore companies using questionable materials are always going to artificially influence the market, making it difficult for ANYONE who does what we (you and I) do. The customers here on the .org are well-informed, but the Average Joe simply knows what he reads in a magazine or sees in a glossy ad.
Say no more - I can attest to the fact that you're not. Neither am I. I wouldn't still be holding down a 9-to-5 if this was THAT lucrative. 
...or have we? 
I hope I'm not overstepping by interpreting this as referring to us. If this is referring to some offshore company, then I apologize.
Having seen our company name used interchangeably and disparagingly with "ebay", however, I think I'm probably reading your implication loud and clear.
I'm more than happy to discuss these alleged "trade-offs" - I can't think of any. To date, I've yet to hear / see / read a complaint from our Maxima customers. Granted, we do a lot more business with 240sx / Sentra owners, and a smattering of other Nissan models, but I'd think any disappointments would be loudly heralded here (and, I suspect, requoted).
Like you, Brian, we take this business, and our customers, seriously. It's only fair that we keep the discussion factual and transparent.
Hope all is well, and I trust you're enjoying this kick-*** AZ weather. Be safe and be well.
-Greg
EDIT: Whenever we get a Maxima customer asking about headers, we send them straight to Cattman - His thread, didn't want to be misperceived as pooping in it.
I'm going to touch on a few of the "implications" here and make sure I'm not misunderstanding what's been typed:
I made a commitment on Day One (back in 2005) that our prices wouldn't change. We got clobbered when steel prices got ridiculous, and just when we thought we were seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, shipping and transport costs took up the slack. Prices stayed where they started - I don't intend to change that.
If a slip-fit connection is leak-prone, you might want to talk to the engineers who designed the Ti system for the C6. Frankly, a properly-designed slip-fit connection with correct clamps has LESS potential for leaks than a billet flange. We use both, so to say one is better than the other is intellectual dishonesty - it depends on the application.
In the spot where we use a slip-fit, it's because that's a perfect spot to loosely fit the system during installation to get proper alignment before torquing it down... A flange, even a perfectly-aligned one, is a static, fixed location. It also doesn't allow for variances in the underbody hanger locations, which Nissan is notoriously sloppy with (I have measured two B16 Spec V's with 1/2" of variance in hanger location).
As far as "grossly undersized resonators", we've done a gracious plenty homework on this. While we'd prefer a longer resonator for our customers who want a 3" system, Magnaflow simply doesn't make one. Now, we could go with another brand, but I've personally sliced open a LOT of exhaust components, and very few companies make a resonator that meets our standards. We offer a 22" resonator for our customers who select a 2.5" system (obviously, that doesn't apply to the majority of Maxima customers). I'd be curious to know where the longer 3" resonators come from. Not to cast aspersions, but simply because we all like to know what we're buying... whether it's what's in our food or what we bolt onto our car. I'm sure you'd agree.
We don't just pull this stuff out of our behinds. There's a reason for everything, and it's not cost-related.
I don't recall hearing who manufactures the components in the systems you're producing, but I wonder if that might be an area of unnecessary expense (or perhaps they're cheaper to begin with)?
We've always been very open and transparent about our components (Magnaflow resonators and mufflers). Perhaps I missed something on the website - I'm not going to imply that the mufflers and resonators are "cheap", because I don't know who makes them or where they were sourced from. Having attended AAPEX / SEMA for the past 9 years, and seen most of the stuff that's manufactured in the US and overseas, I have a pretty good idea - but it would be nice for customers to know.
My exhaust partner runs a superior operation and makes parts for some of the best-known and highly regarded performance parts specialists (that also do their own manufacturing) in the US. The difference is that my manufacturer is only 500 miles away and is fully accountable to me.
but I am part owner. Accountability means having skin in the game. If you stopped producing systems tomorrow, he'd remain in business. If I do the same, half the facility closes up, most of the guys go home, and my investment is gone. Just wanted to clarify that. I *do* agree 100% that the offshore companies using questionable materials are always going to artificially influence the market, making it difficult for ANYONE who does what we (you and I) do. The customers here on the .org are well-informed, but the Average Joe simply knows what he reads in a magazine or sees in a glossy ad.
Having seen our company name used interchangeably and disparagingly with "ebay", however, I think I'm probably reading your implication loud and clear.
I'm more than happy to discuss these alleged "trade-offs" - I can't think of any. To date, I've yet to hear / see / read a complaint from our Maxima customers. Granted, we do a lot more business with 240sx / Sentra owners, and a smattering of other Nissan models, but I'd think any disappointments would be loudly heralded here (and, I suspect, requoted).
Like you, Brian, we take this business, and our customers, seriously. It's only fair that we keep the discussion factual and transparent.
Hope all is well, and I trust you're enjoying this kick-*** AZ weather. Be safe and be well.
-Greg
EDIT: Whenever we get a Maxima customer asking about headers, we send them straight to Cattman - His thread, didn't want to be misperceived as pooping in it.
Last edited by AZhitman; 03-28-2013 at 11:48 PM. Reason: I've inhaled a lot of brake cleaner and I forget things.
03-28-2013, 02:53 PM
#139
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Brandon, FL
Posts: 69
These are shipping today correct?? I can't wait 
03-30-2013, 05:48 PM
#141
Went to Bristol Motor Speedway for Street Fights today. On the way there I got pulled over. For speeding? Nope. For accelerating around a car and the cop a few cars back heard it! What!?
No ticket, guy was actually kind of grinning....not a jerk in ANY way. First thing he asked me when he came to my window was to restart my car. In any case, I think it's time I pull the trigger on a new resonated section.
No ticket, guy was actually kind of grinning....not a jerk in ANY way. First thing he asked me when he came to my window was to restart my car. In any case, I think it's time I pull the trigger on a new resonated section.
03-30-2013, 06:25 PM
#142
Went to Bristol Motor Speedway for Street Fights today. On the way there I got pulled over. For speeding? Nope. For accelerating around a car and the cop a few cars back heard it! What!?
No ticket, guy was actually kind of grinning....not a jerk in ANY way. First thing he asked me when he came to my window was to restart my car. In any case, I think it's time I pull the trigger on a new resonated section.
No ticket, guy was actually kind of grinning....not a jerk in ANY way. First thing he asked me when he came to my window was to restart my car. In any case, I think it's time I pull the trigger on a new resonated section.
03-31-2013, 08:33 PM
#145
Yeah it's really quiet! and yes 12640 and 10436
http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/s...=main&id=10863
http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/s...=main&id=10967
Yeah those are 2.5" resonators! The 12649 is the Special baby!
http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/s...=main&id=10863
http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/s...=main&id=10967
Yeah those are 2.5" resonators! The 12649 is the Special baby!
03-31-2013, 08:46 PM
#146
All the parts should be here this week and assembly should be complete soon.....I'm gonna rescue all you Mature Guys wanting less Volume! Pricing will be $250-$325 it's all Stainless except for the CRS (corrosion resistant Steel) 3/8" 2 bolt flanges....This unit will dramatically make your throttle response more linear and responsive, since Magnaflow uses a single tube design from one end to the other! My vehicle throttle seems so much more responsive with the Magnaflow unit....I've tested several setups to compare to....
04-02-2013, 06:14 AM
#150
So, my exhaust will be here today, but unfortunately I didn't receive an e-mail until 530 last night telling me that my FastCat gaskets were NOT included in shipment. I went to my local Nissan dealer, and they have to be special ordered. Went to AutoZone, they have to be special ordered. Doing everything I can to not lose my cool today
04-02-2013, 06:38 AM
#153
It's not always about performance. The resonator is to reduce the drone (especially for automatics) and make the drive more enjoyable without sacrificing performance. Not to mention, that price doesn't hurt so bad since theyve already got the 3" exhaust paid for and put on.
04-02-2013, 06:46 AM
#154
It's not always about performance. The resonator is to reduce the drone (especially for automatics) and make the drive more enjoyable without sacrificing performance. Not to mention, that price doesn't hurt so bad since theyve already got the 3" exhaust paid for and put on.
It is a 13-14 year old nissan maxima. $1000+ spent on a catback? 1/4 the value of the car for the catback? seriously?
I can buy a cheaper catback for a supra, gtr, corvette, etc.
04-02-2013, 06:49 AM
#155
one chooses to do with their money.You would
if you knew how much I spent on my Pathfinder's lift, when I could have easily bought a CJ, lifted it and have more functionality, and at a cheaper price.
04-02-2013, 06:54 AM
#156
Lol, exactly... I could care less what your opinion is on what I could have done with my money. I choose to have fun with 11 year old car, and if I want to drop $1100 on a 3" exhaust, so what? Cant stand judgmental people, it's not your money, so who gives a ****? If there were a market for i35/maximas like Supras, Corvettes, etc, Im sure I wouldnt have spent as much on this exhaust as I did. But unfortunately, Im not going to get a Corvette or Supra at the price I got my I35 which is perfect for everything I need. Carseat and all. Sorry Im not you
04-02-2013, 09:48 AM
#159
So, my exhaust will be here today, but unfortunately I didn't receive an e-mail until 530 last night telling me that my FastCat gaskets were NOT included in shipment. I went to my local Nissan dealer, and they have to be special ordered. Went to AutoZone, they have to be special ordered. Doing everything I can to not lose my cool today
04-02-2013, 10:31 AM
#160
So, my exhaust will be here today, but unfortunately I didn't receive an e-mail until 530 last night telling me that my FastCat gaskets were NOT included in shipment. I went to my local Nissan dealer, and they have to be special ordered. Went to AutoZone, they have to be special ordered. Doing everything I can to not lose my cool today
You made perfectly clear earlier in this thread that the services and parts you are getting are worth the money you paid. Why make this public? It is an issue between you and the vendor not delivering the parts promised that you paid for. It should be kept private and only made public if it is not resolved in a timely manner. At least he notified you and you didn't open up the package to find them missing or worse show up for your appointment to install the exhaust at one of those scary dangerous exhaust shops to find it missing.
I should be able to get you gaskets shipped today if you still need them.
edit: Why go with a fast cat and not a test pipe? Can't pass emissions in your state or something? I would just return the test pipe, demand they pay for shipping as it was delivered uninstallable, and have the shop make you a flanged 3'' test pipe for $100 bucks to mate up with your 2.5'' ID headers.
Last edited by FastnFuriousMax; 04-02-2013 at 10:37 AM.