busterdawg22

iTrader: (5)

The search is down, so I can't find it myself. This is going to be a really stupid question, but please bear with me on this one. This is just out of curiosity...

1. What is the performance difference between getting a supercharger and a turbo?

2. Does one of them produce more wear and tear on your car than the other?

3. Can you put both on at the same time?

I don't know anything about forced induction and I was just wondering about this cause I'd like to know more. Thanks!

Craig Mack

1) For the Max, there is the centrifugel stillen V1/V2 supercharger, and the turbo kits with their certain turbo's. The turbo kits for the Maxima usually produce full boost well before redline whereas the super builds gradually until redline. The turbo "hits harder" and gives more hp/tq per psi.

2)The turbo will put more wear and tear on your car becuase it puts more stress on the engine. Full boost hitting at 3k until redline is harder on the engine then smooth, gradual boost from the supercharger. But if you know what your doing and tune everything right, you can have a decently reliable engine with a turbo too.

3)Yes, but it's pointless on the Maxima. Chebosto explained why a while ago, I forgot why though.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

there is basically no difference in how the Supercharger and the TurboCharger builds boost, they both build boost gradually before redline and they both hit full boost before redline.

the only diffence is what turbo application you choose and how fast it will build full boost or how long it will take to build full boost. In most turbo applications the turbo's that build boost faster will have less power in higher RPM Range and the turbo that builds boost later will have more power in higher RPM Range, however you can have the best of both worlds with a Ball Bearing Turbo, they are more expensive but will build boost early and have lots of power in high RPMS.

The turbo will put less wear and tear on an engine because the Turbo uses Exhaust to build its power, where as the supercharger uses accesory belts off the engine to build power. The harder the supercharger performs the more stress is placed on the engine. You can drive a Supercharged or TurboCharged car for as long as you want and never hit boost so when the Turbo or Supercharger hits boost is mute. That and i already explained above that they are both simular in boost spikes and gradual boost buildup. All in All a supercharger will place more stress on the engine than the TurboCharger.

You can do both and it is not pointless. Its actually a very good idea, you could use one for quick spool and one for higher RPM power, however, the amount of money it would cost you to custom fabricate both would be very expensive and it would be easier to go with a twin turbo setup (small and large turbo) instead.

its one thing to give information, its another to give bad information. Go tell daddy to buy you a book on Turbo and Superchargers

ejj

iTrader: (5)

I agree with Craig. To go from, lets say, 120hp to 320hp in a 200 RPM range or so is putting a lot of stress on the internals. Its like they're getting HIT hard (those numbers may be way off, but they illustrate my point).

I've yet to see a turbo dyno with a linear hp or torque curve. I'm sure they're are turbo's out there to do so, but I haven't seen anyone that's using one.

The SC builds boost linerally (sp?), so there isn't that HITTING (sudden boost) effect that a turbo has. Even at WOT.

Just because the SC drives off a belt doesn't mean it strains the engine much. The crankshaft still turns at the rate that it wants to. The SC just drives off that. The added strain is minimal compared to the sudden boost that most turbos place on the engine. You don't hear of any SC guys with crankshaft related failures (bearings, seals, rods, etc.).

I have no proof, just common sense.

busterdawg22

iTrader: (5)

OK, thank you very much, guys. So is the horsepower increase pretty much the same between turbos and superchargers? Also, if you had a twin turbo setup (hypothetically), would it just be like the power of two turbos? So if one turbo would give you 60 HP, then a twin turbo setup would give you 120 HP? Just curious.

Craig Mack

No. The turbo kits for the Max build a lot more power per PSI then the Supercharger kits. But the SC kits have been around for a looooong time and are tried and true. We know all their strengths and weaknesess. The turbo's have been out for like 5 months.

Don't always listen to SprintMax. He is jealous of my blessings and tries to make me look bad whenever he can. He knows a lot about cars, but can also be a real pr!ck about things.

That's the idea somewhat, but a single turbo for the Max is plenty. The single turbo's out now for the Max now will compete up there with a twin turbo. No one has ever done a TT becuase theres not a whole lot of room for one. You'll often find Supra TT's upgrading to a single big turbo, becuase it gives them more power for a better 1/4th time. Anyways, forget about twin-turbo'ing. It would be a totally custom job, and would probubly cost you three times the cost of a single turbo kit.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

thats dangerous

unfortunately the supercharger because it is using the components of the engine(belts and accessories) will cause an engine to wear down faster than a turbo will..

the only turbo dyno you have seen on this board is Nigel's car.. and he has a fairly large turbo.. so large the supra boys consider it large..

if you want to see a dyno where the boost starts early and builds gradually.. you will have to look for a dyno from a T3/T4.. however.. Hal has not posted any dyno's yet..

if you look at stock dyno's from WRX's or 1.8T's you will see what i am talkign about.. these are small turbo's i spoke about in my original post.

are you sure about that?

you havn't heard any turbo guys with engine wear problems ither.. however the fact still remains a supercharger will put more stress on the engine than a turbocharger.. the supercharger also has to work much harder to produce the same numbers the turbocharger will..

i understand how you feel.. you did extensive research before buying your SC and its kinda like you have to convince yourself now that you made the right choice.. i would too if i were in your shoes

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

Supercharger kits have been around for 4 years.. sorry to break it to you.. but people have been turbocharging maxima's for longer than 4 years..

also if you would like to know.. Supercharger's are so different and complex that each one is different.. and its hard for you to go to a mustang guy and ask him/her for help with your Maxima Supercharger..

Turbo's are universal and usually what information holds true for a WRX, will hold true for an IS 300 or a Supra.. Turbo's are Turbo's.. you can always ask your buddy with his Turbo car for help. Though mass production of Turbo's for maxima's has been recently uprising.. Turbo's in general have been around for ever..

jealous? what mod do you have on your car that i don't have? i know i can name more than a few i have that you don't why the hell would i be jealous of you?



wrong again..

Single Turbo's dont' give more power than Twin Turbo's.. HKS Twin Turbo Kit for the Toyota Supra puts out more power than 90% of the Single Turbo Kits for the Supra.

MAXIN

iTrader: (5)

dafro's 'auturbo' dyno looks pretty linear... it spools faster cuz of the shorter piping...

ejj

iTrader: (5)

Nonsense. Are you implying then that driving around with the AC on all the time will cause the engine to die quicker? Driving another accessory doesn't increase wear on the engine, it just robs it of output power to drive the accessory. The SC isn't adding much resistance to the system compared to just driving the alternator and AC.

Like I said, I'm sure you can get a linear power curve with a turbo, I just haven't seen one on a Max. I have no doubts that you can.

What number engine is hlh on? What about turbomax?

I agree that you can't necessarly get the same hp #'s/lb boost as you can with a turbo, but that's not the argument here.

I think its safe to say that NO forced induction method is good for an engine. Both a turbo and a SC would shorten engine life if driven the same way over the same mileage compared to an NA engine.



I have no doubts the SC will do exactly as I want it to, so how could it be the wrong choice?

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

you must take me for an idiot.. you think an AC Compressor does as much as a supercharger? if thats the case.. why don't we forget stillen and rewire the AC to push air into the engine and get the same power as the Supercharger


MAXIN says dafro's is linear.. go cop dat..


unfortunately.. my name isn't hlh or turbomax.. you will have to ask them

ok

not true.. a FI engine on lower compression will be the same as a NA engine on very high compression.. the diffence is our cars don't come with FI so we have high compression to begin with..

let me ask you this.. what about a Supercharger makes you want it over a turbo?

i mean.. if you want quick spool.. turbo's do that.. you want linear power.. turbo's do that.. you what high rpm power.. turbo's do that.. apart from the Parasitic Loss.. thats the only thing a SuperCharger does over a Turbo.. so please.. enlighten me

ejj

iTrader: (5)

You missed my point. The engine doesn't care what pully's its turning with the crank shaft. AC, PS, SC, a pully is a pully to the engine. The SC pully is no harder for the engine to turn than the PS or AC pully. The internal gearing of the SC (3.XX : 1) does all the work.

Like I said, I don't doubt it, just haven't seen it.

Well, is it more than 1?

True, but altering compression is outside the scope of this discussion. I'm assuming two stock (internally) motors, one with Turbo on with SC. Both of they will have a shorter life (by how much is the question) than a NA motor in the same situation.

Personal preference. No fear of boost spikes if the wastegate/boost controls dies. I can handle shreaded belts. They won't blow the engine.

I'm not looking for MardiGras or Nigel type power. ~250hp would be fine with me. The SC kit would do that with the most pre-existing knowledge here, therefor it was an easy decision for me.


Sprite, you're getting too defensive. I'm not saying that a SC is better than a turbo. I'm sure someone with a turbo will post better dyno numbers than Mardi and mabye even better times. I think your sweeping statement that a SC is much harder on an engine is un-proven and misleading. That's all.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

ok i will stop

ejj

iTrader: (5)

wow, I accomplished the impossible!

Craig Mack

seriously. i wish i could do that

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

did you want me to answer you?

ejj

iTrader: (5)

If you'd like.

busterdawg22

iTrader: (5)

So what kind of price difference are we looking at? How much is a supercharger with everything you would need? How much is a turbo with everything you would need (including intercooler and everything). I'm just checking things out. Thanks guys.

ejj

iTrader: (5)

Depends on what you mean by "everything you would need"? If you want to intercool a SC kit, it will cost more than the turbo kit. If you just want the stock SC kit, its less than the turbo kit.

Depends on what your goal is.

Craig Mack

Yea. For example, I got my V1 supercharger kit with 4 pullies, a blitz bov, 3 FMU discs, custom cai, new belts, all piping, hardware, ect. for $2600 shipped. There aren't any used turbo kits on the market so your always going to pay full price.

qnpark8282

iTrader: (2)

well its just not the price of the sc kit and the turbo kit. turbos have endless amount of tunning involved but when its all said and done you will be a one happy man. tunning costs alot of money and the electronic to do the tunning.