Then you might have a different lawsuit on your hands: underrating the Altima to boost sales for the Maxima. Imagine if you just got a Big Mac b/c they advertised it had more beef than the double cheeseburger, when in reality, it doesn't. Both have 3.2 ounces of beef before cooking. Wouldn't you be cheated?

 

Yes you would, nice analogy, man im gettin hungry now

 

Anachronism made a very good point about underrating the altima....but in this case, its definitely an overrating of the maxima, 20% loss is just a bit too much

 

This is a very disturbing chain of info and thoughts. I just purchased an '03 Maxima GLE, and will gladly do a dyno run with my car. It's broken in (nice trip from GA to KS and back), and since it's an automatic, I know you all need the info. Let me know where/when to send it, and who to send it to. Just e-mail me with the details.

 

There is a problem with companies over or underrating all of their cars, then going the opposite way with one of them. Nissan for example, lets say they overrated most every car they produced. Then they make a car that they underrate (Altima). When everyone else with the overrated cars (Max's) see that the dyno's show the same #'s, there's hell to pay.

BTW, I'm going to sit this one out and not post anymore since this is basically 02 Maxima owners' thread. If you have any questions about stuff that I've posted, or if I see something that in my experience and knowledge is wrong, I'll post again. Just imagine what the 3.5 Max will do if it gets all the oats it was promised... Best of luck getting this sorted out!

 

i believe your right about that. I've been over at altimas.net surfing for dynos.. and i've seen at least three different dynos for the 5spd 3.5 altima... all of them are around 205-209 hp to the wheels stock

 

Thanks MK for all of your informative posts and your support concerning this issue. I've read your posts both here and in the other thread. By all means, jump in when and where you feel. Your insight I think has been valuable as we are hashing out our disappointment as well as our strategy going forward.

Regards,

 

New guy here but not new to cars....... I would like dispute the above statement maded that there is more power loss in a FWD than a RWD car. I do not have any numbers handy but listen to these points:

1. There are more components (and thus more mass) in the drivetrain of a RWD vehicle than a FWD vehicle

2.Autotragics have more power loss than a standard by nature of the beast.

All of that said I am miffed on the big deal about the HP. So there can and will be discrepancies in ratings from one car to another and I would say that what this is. Period... end of story. Would a manfacturer send a "tweaked" engine to someone to test? I happened in the 60's and 70's all the time. Is it right? Certainly not.

Anyway, I understand all concerns and here are my thoughts on it FWIW:
We traded a 99 SE in to get out of a lease and bought a 2k SE. So could I tell a difference in performance? Maybe......

But honestly in the world most people live in (0-80 MPH) TORQUE is KING. Born and raised on big block Chryslers (please insert your harassment and insults here) and I-6 Ford I think the horsepower war is bullsh*t. Maybe that 15 HP will help get you from 80 to 125 faster than my v8 Dakota but when the lights go down my Dak sure will give ya a surprise. (Yes my truck will run dead even with her Maxima up to about 80 MPH then she is gone! And it is not an R/T :-) It has pulled low 15's without mods and me asleep at the wheel) Make it clear by no means it this to diss the Maxima because I ENJOY to drive it when I can but to ask for a buyback or threaten a lawsuit? I really have a hard time with this. Please let the Lemon law be used to take dangerous and problem cars of the road and not cars that are short 15 HP.

OK now feel free to insult me.......

And all of that said, good luck with your problem. I just contacted the Ohio Atty General's office and the BBB to get a strange noise inside the car resolved. 11 trips to the dealer we purchased it from and not resolved. The BBB got a contact at NNA to send a fact rep to another dealer who fixed the car and compensated us for the time involved with 11 trips and 28 days without a car. When she is happy I am happy!

 

The point is, given the same engine, two vehicles similar in spec, are putting down different HP numbers. The Maxima's being listed higher than spec, to encourage people to buy it over it's little brother. Also, the timing was very interesting, when the CL-S was coming out with 260HP, Nissan originally stated 260HP for the Maxima, then corrected it to 255HP, while the Altima with the same engine is putting out 240HP? Now that the Honda Accord 240HP was released, the Altima gets 245HP on the same engine?

Sounds like Nissan is playing a little marketing game here. Good luck with the case, hope you guys get something back, maybe in the form of some green. $$$.

 

Nissan underrated the Altima and the true rating was published for 2003. The 2002 dyno plots back up the 245 claim. The Maxima dyno plots seem to suggest a similar rating.

Has anyone seen any dyno plots for the new Accord? I have my doubts about that 240 rating.

 

1) All cars in this test are FWD, so we don't really care about RWD losses. However, I'm pretty sure that RWD does have less loss than FWD.

2) Both the automatic Altima and automatic Maxima share the same drivetrain. That rules out the discrepancies that you were talking aobut. So, the Altima should have about 10HP less at the wheels than the Max. Period.

3) This is all about not getting what you paid for. If we weren't getting the Torque that we paid for, we would have the same issue....just this thread would be all about torque instead of horsepower.

Think of it kind of like this...If you went to a Hamburger joint that advertises all hamburgers are 1lb., but when you get there and buy a hamburger you notice that yours is really like 7/8lb. Not only does this happen to you, but to everyone else that buys a hamburger there...wouldn't you be upset also, and want some sort of compensation? Later, you noticed that the lack of weight was a direct result to them "cheating" you out of some lettuce. Sure you got the hamburger which is the "most useful" or largest portion of the burger, but you still didn't get all that you had paid for...That is like what this is all about....just that the HP issue is much bigger than some hamburger.

 

some good news, i was at the dyno shop yesterday getting a 350Z dynoed(don't ask i'm kinda mad) and i asked the guys about what they see for hp losses and they said it's always the same, right around 13-15% for a stick and 16-18% for an auto. i told them about the nissan case too and they said ya your max should be putting down at minimun 215 and it did like 204 and i told them everyone else is getting those numbers too.

 

Be miffed all you want we're not going to drop the issue. Sure torque is king and the truth is that all of us VQ35 owners are blessed with alot more torque than Nissan advertised. The cars make more along the lines of 265 torque insted of the advertised 246. Im sure you're already read this a thousand times by now in this post alone. And Im sure you've read the thousand parts where Steve pointed out the reason why we're persuing this issue. Why is it so hard to understand that we simply want that little extra 15hp that we paid for? Even as insignificant as it may sound to you thats the reall issue here. And to make things worse the less expensive option (Altima) has the exact same power output than the Nissan flagship. I personally am willing to deal with the quality issues of the car but I fully expect to get everything that I was told I was getting. Now if Nissan had simply advertised this car as having the exact same hp numbers as the Altima I wouldn't be having this conversation. I would have still purchased the exact same car for the same amount of money. It's really all about honesty, integrity and living up to ones part of the bargain. We feel that Nissan hasn't lived up to their share of the bargain so we will simply ask them to do so. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I have a bone stock 2k2 6sp and would be happy to get it dyno'd for this cause and feel free to contact me about joining the suit hardrivn@yahoo.com Let me know where to get it dyno'd and I will do it. but the questions I have are with regard to engine dyno, does an engine dyno require the same exhaust and intake systems as well as a rev limiter for a manufacturer to quote it? Also transmission effeciency is not a strict number and may account for the difference in wheel hp a Dyno at the crank and then adjusted for sea level oxygen content is probably going to be required for you to suceed in this suit. but I could be wrong completely.

 

before contacting BBB contact Steve please........thanks

 

sr20den--but isnt the altima now rated at 245 hp, so aren't you just looking for and extra 10?

 

Had my parts department look up some part numbers for me and I found some interesting items...

Part numbers which are exactly the same between the 3.5l's in the 2002 Altima and Maxima:
both cylinder heads // all 4 camshafts // collector manifold // intake manifold // throttlebody // both exhaust manifolds

Part numbers which are exactly the same between the 2002 Alt/Max 3.5 and the 2003 350z 3.5
both cylinder heads // all 4 camshafts // intake manifold // throttlebody

Where is the difference between these engines? If the main parts are interchangeable how can they explain the massive range of "rated" HP, from 240 (Alty) to 287 (350z)?

I used the search function a bit and found a huge thread on using the Consult-II to adjust the timing by a couple degrees and the "butt-dyno" results of low to mid rpm gains. Can it be that the main separation here is due to ECM programming and that getting us (Max owners) our rated 255 HP could be something as simple as a tweeking of the ECM programming?

Its late and my head is aching, what are your thoughts on this?

Lonz

PS: intake manifold is the "lower intake manifold" and the collector manifold is the "upper intake manifold" or at least thats how they explained it to me.

 

yes please, i spoke with our lawyer earlier and it's still going good, CHINAonNitrous i need to talk to you. hit me up. and don't talk to nissan or the BBB anymore for now. he said it's best to keep it quiet for now. thanks.

 

Yeah the new 2003 Altima is 245hp now.
I read on Nissanperformance.com magazine and they verified that it went up 5hp by dynoing 2002 and 2003 Altima 5-speed.

 

 

Not sure if I can help, but I own a 2K2 AUTO SE. If there is any thing I can do to help let me know.

waterlandice@yahoo.com

 

I just read in the December Car and Driver that Hyundai was sued by owners for advertising incorrect horsepower figures on all their U.S. models. The remedy in the settlement was a free extended warranty or free roadside assistance. Beats nothing, I guess.

 

Somehow I bet Nissan provided them the cars to Dyno too.

Stereodude

 

i can guarantee that, just like they did for sport compact car, the maxima dynoed at like 216hp which is almost perfect for 255hp at the crank but yet NO ONE had numbers anywhere close to that. nissan is going very far to "pull the wool" over our eyes, they underrated our cars but then they sent one that gave the right hp to SCC, that's pretty low, i'll have to let the laywer know about that too, i talked to him yesterday and we decided we're gonna file the suit in cali, CHINA ON NITROUS we need your help email me please at steve@frankencar.com and....

polar2k2 if you would ike to dyno your car it would be appreciated since your an auto and those are the numbers we are really concentrating on.

 

I will get mine on a dyno, not sure where one is located here in Colorado, but I will find out and let you know ASAP. Let's see where this goes!

 

pm nigel aka turbo97se and check with him. i know co is big, but he might know of a few places.

about the hyundai thing--i posted it before, but the tiburon and santa fe people also had the choice to get one free monthly payment (about $450). With that, you could put in a udp, y-pipe and a [plug]Frankencar Intake [\plug]. That would be about 20 fwhp, don't you think?

 

http://www.dynojet.com/lauto.shtml

will have locations of dyno shops

and the way nissan will prolly have to increase the hp without increasing the noise level a bunch is too install a better intake manifold.

 

Thanks, they will do it for $50
Paragon Tuning
10 South Havana Suite 120
Auroa 80012
Tel. 303-366-4775

 

nice good luck, remember 93 octane check your tire pressure AND 3RD GEAR in an auto.

 

Does anybody know where to dyno in the Los Angeles area for less than $100? I want to dyno an auto max and altima and have to pay for both- $200 is a bit steep.

 

hmm i'm east coast, try asking in the regional forum for california someone will know and i am looking forward to those numbers

 

think i have the help you need about the lsd problem.....i just bought a 2k3 se 6speed without the helical limited slip diferantial....would that be more comparable against the altima?i have 4800 miles on mine....let me know and tell me how to find a dyno in richmond va ....im all in for this......i sell the damn things and still want to burn nissans asses....

 

I have a 2002 Max SE. One of the major buying points was the 255 horsepower. I tell you the truth if I didn't run into this thread I would believe that my car did have 255horses because its damn fast.
But to think that the altima (which is beneath the Max) has the same horsepower disgusts me.
If this is true and Nissan flagrantly lied about the actual HP of the 2002 Maxima I'm pretty upset.
Whats the bottom line if this does go to court?? Will all 2002 Max owners get something (if anything) or only those that participated in the lawsuit??
It just isn't right to lie about the horsepower of a car!! First the paintchips now this!
Don't get me wrong, I love my car, ever car has its problems and aren't perfect but flat out lying to get more sales is horrible. It probably some slick-*** marketing guy who came up with the lie, snake oil salesman!!!
Once everything gets settled everyone who is a member of the Org should get emailed to unite everyone. Together we can get results!

We have a responsibility to do something so something like this doesn't happen again.

 

No not just the people who participate in the class action lawsuit will get something out of it, all 2k2's will benefit. In a class action lawsuit, if it is proven that the maxima is indeed putting out less horses then they marketed, they will have to give you an option of maybe a few things. I'm not sure exactly what, but in the past when this has happened with hyundi and Mustangs, they either increased the power, or gave you a longer warrenty with more miles or more years onto the warrenty, like i said early, please withstain from contacting the BBB, the lawyer is handling this matter and contacting the BBB will only make things more difficult, but keep the dyno's up, there have been a good amount of faxes from Steve to the lawyer and all the dyno's have been pretty similar, and some altima's have been dyno'd as well and have been pretty similar, 6 cylinder altima guys, dyno them too, it'd help us out greatly.......just sit tight and be cool and things will take their course....PROMISE

 

I live in NJ, and I have an auto. What can I do and would you happen to know where in NJ I can get a dyno and about how much does that cost??

 

i think steve had a post earlier in the thread that showed you where to go and look for a place to dyno near you

 

Not only did i get slapped up by my boys TL-S (all stock) tonight...It was bad to the point he turned on his hazards lol..... Only if I had the 15 HORSEPOWER THAT I GOT SCREWED OUT OF

 

So are you also going to sue Nissan for giving you more torque than advertised or just for giving the same amount of extra torque to the Altima owners?

 

Take a look at my dyno. Assuming 15% drive train loss I didn't get the torque I paid for.

http://www.mustangmods.com/publish/8...ockmaxdyno.jpg

Only after I removed my air filter. And still didn't get the hp I paid for.

 

You should not get slapped up by any tl-s unless it's mod'd, i mean they might win but it should be very close, must be your driving then