DEK build for boost
09-30-2008, 09:00 PM
#81
I was hoping you wouldn't mistake my stance for ignorance of the theory behind studs. Theory is nice, but what happens in each individual situation in the real world is better. I will make two points:
1. Factory head bolts are designed to stretch and/or twist. This stretching doesn't compromise the bolts' reliability. In fact, this characteristic is the catalyst by which it does it's job. As such, they provide one distinct and irrefutable advantage over any non-TTY fastener; absolute preload consistency. When you torque down an ARP stud, you are not measuring preload; you are simply measuring friction between the threads, which can vary based on a number of factors. When you use angle tightening on a TTY bolt, you can rest assured that the preload through the yield zone will remain consistent. Even tightening around the bore promotes a greater level of concentricity, especially on open-deck blocks.
2. Standard ARP's have not been proven to be any more reliable than OEM in a (specifically) VQ3x application, boosted or otherwise. I am careful not to throw these into the same category as L19's which due to their sheer tensile strength, might prove to be more reliable. In any case, simply using stronger fasteners to fix "head lift" is like putting lipstick on a pig, but that's another story.
1. Factory head bolts are designed to stretch and/or twist. This stretching doesn't compromise the bolts' reliability. In fact, this characteristic is the catalyst by which it does it's job. As such, they provide one distinct and irrefutable advantage over any non-TTY fastener; absolute preload consistency. When you torque down an ARP stud, you are not measuring preload; you are simply measuring friction between the threads, which can vary based on a number of factors. When you use angle tightening on a TTY bolt, you can rest assured that the preload through the yield zone will remain consistent. Even tightening around the bore promotes a greater level of concentricity, especially on open-deck blocks.
2. Standard ARP's have not been proven to be any more reliable than OEM in a (specifically) VQ3x application, boosted or otherwise. I am careful not to throw these into the same category as L19's which due to their sheer tensile strength, might prove to be more reliable. In any case, simply using stronger fasteners to fix "head lift" is like putting lipstick on a pig, but that's another story.
Now I'm the proud owner of a Dodge Shelby Charger that was notorius for blown head gasket cause the OEM stretch bolt could handle 17lbs boost for a sustained duration! The cure Larger stud fasteners(+1mm) and now the ability to run 30 lb boost, NO PROBLEMS!!!
I would love to be able to legally cruise together, down I-10 you in your stretch bolt machine, me in my Nissan with my theoritical studs at no less than 130 mph for about 1 hr. I guarantee we'll find you on the infamous "ROAD DEAD".
You still never stated why aviation machines are full of studded components instead of stretch bolts, nor why any racing team even the sorriest use heavy stud fasteners such as ARP, RACEWARE, or COSWORTH etc...If i was 20 yrs younger, your real world experience and knowledge would get a big a$$ laugh! As far as Standard ARP hardware Im running their Specific application rod bolts on 3 of my vehicles and shift well beyond the lame OEM stretch bolt limit with no problems, SO if you live in the REAL WORLD< I guess I'm in "THE WORLD OF ACTUALITY" > it's not only theory put performance proven!!!! The End
09-30-2008, 09:11 PM
#82
www.clubna-t.com has gt35r's for 612 shipped, bishnu.
A guy with 1jz (2.5L) made 465whp on a light tune at around 23psi.
I vouch for this product, and so do a bunch more people. The 3.0 should spool it well before 3k, and won't run out of breath.
I would seriously look for something bigger than a gt35r, but you dont want peaky power. I'd slap a gt42 on there with built internals, and give it hell.
A guy with 1jz (2.5L) made 465whp on a light tune at around 23psi.
I vouch for this product, and so do a bunch more people. The 3.0 should spool it well before 3k, and won't run out of breath.
I would seriously look for something bigger than a gt35r, but you dont want peaky power. I'd slap a gt42 on there with built internals, and give it hell.
09-30-2008, 09:12 PM
#83
Originally Posted by CMax03
If we were in to 60's and early 70's I would agree with the OEM hardware being sufficient and reliable! There's no need for me to go with OEM in a high performance application when their stretch bolts aren't even sufficient for high mileage street vehicle (unmodified). The fact is you can only bend or stretch the metal some much before it finally fatigues and fails such as in Nissans Z20,Z22,and Z24 4 cyl engines (notorious for the head of the bolts to just snap off) and every domestic and foreign rotating assembly with stretch rod and main bolts usually results in spun bearings on untouched and none modified cars
Now I'm the proud owner of a Dodge Shelby Charger that was notorius for blown head gasket cause the OEM stretch bolt could handle 17lbs boost for a sustained duration! The cure Larger stud fasteners(+1mm) and now the ability to run 30 lb boost, NO PROBLEMS!!!
I would love to be able to legally cruise together, down I-10 you in your stretch bolt machine, me in my Nissan with my theoritical studs at no less than 130 mph for about 1 hr. I guarantee we'll find you on the infamous "ROAD DEAD".
You still never stated why aviation machines are full of studded components instead of stretch bolts, nor why any racing team even the sorriest use heavy stud fasteners such as ARP, RACEWARE, or COSWORTH etc...If i was 20 yrs younger, your real world experience and knowledge would get a big a$$ laugh! As far as Standard ARP hardware Im running their Specific application rod bolts on 3 of my vehicles and shift well beyond the lame OEM stretch bolt limit with no problems, SO if you live in the REAL WORLD< I guess I'm in "THE WORLD OF ACTUALITY" > it's not only theory put performance proven!!!! The End
Now I'm the proud owner of a Dodge Shelby Charger that was notorius for blown head gasket cause the OEM stretch bolt could handle 17lbs boost for a sustained duration! The cure Larger stud fasteners(+1mm) and now the ability to run 30 lb boost, NO PROBLEMS!!!
I would love to be able to legally cruise together, down I-10 you in your stretch bolt machine, me in my Nissan with my theoritical studs at no less than 130 mph for about 1 hr. I guarantee we'll find you on the infamous "ROAD DEAD".
You still never stated why aviation machines are full of studded components instead of stretch bolts, nor why any racing team even the sorriest use heavy stud fasteners such as ARP, RACEWARE, or COSWORTH etc...If i was 20 yrs younger, your real world experience and knowledge would get a big a$$ laugh! As far as Standard ARP hardware Im running their Specific application rod bolts on 3 of my vehicles and shift well beyond the lame OEM stretch bolt limit with no problems, SO if you live in the REAL WORLD< I guess I'm in "THE WORLD OF ACTUALITY" > it's not only theory put performance proven!!!! The End
Let's leave it at that.
Last edited by nismology; 10-01-2008 at 08:58 AM.
10-02-2008, 09:52 AM
#85
You still have no idea what point I'm trying to make so this is useless. I've been around these motors (VQ3x) for a while now so I've seen what works and what doesn't. You can keep throwing theory about every other engine manufactured even going back to the damn Model T if you want to. Doesn't bother me...
Let's leave it at that.
Let's leave it at that.
Last edited by CMax03; 10-02-2008 at 09:54 AM.
10-02-2008, 09:56 AM
#86
Nevermind the fact that we were talking about standard ARP head studs for a VQ3x application... 
http://my350z.com/forum/forced-induc...3-0-build.html
Your turn.
http://my350z.com/forum/forced-induc...3-0-build.html
Your turn.
10-02-2008, 12:27 PM
#87
Nice Article! But you Know Nismology...The head lift can be due to unsecure/improperly machined sleeves, Block flex due to not boring or honing cylinders with torque plates, even a substandard head gasket(for that specific application) could have played a part to his term "HEAD LIFT" or what I call a blown head gasket....Nismology improperly installed studs can be problematic if installed with too much or too less torque. Thanks for the respond, I'm not trying to be an a$$, I'm just going by my practices and results with engines I've build and ran with no problems @ extreme levels. I find no need to stud My VG30E nor VQ35DE but, the rod bolts is where my attention is for the power levels I'm @ in both those N/A cars. Thanks Guy, I'm cool with your opinion , no disrespect....
10-03-2008, 12:32 PM
#89
VG30DE, VG30E, have been known to make 500whp with stock internal components, I had my rods out and their stronger looking than Chevy(stock) 350 rods. So I'm going with the rod bolts themselves. Japan doesn't make to many blocks or bottom ends that to be heavily modified for higher performance yrs back B4 Honda became so mainstream, production blocks and cranks were used in Endurance Racing (Lemans).
10-03-2008, 12:50 PM
#90
VQ's are quite different from the nissan engines you're used to working on. The mode of engine failure under boost with VQ35's is usually bent rods. 500+ WHP has been done (which the OEM head bolts can handle reliably) but is not typical. The rods are definitely the weak point in the stock VQ35 shortblock. Furthermore, torque doesn't kill rod bolts; revs do.
Last edited by nismology; 10-03-2008 at 12:53 PM.
10-03-2008, 01:46 PM
#91
VQ's are quite different from the nissan engines you're used to working on. The mode of engine failure under boost with VQ35's is usually bent rods. 500+ WHP has been done (which the OEM head bolts can handle reliably) but is not typical. The rods are definitely the weak point in the stock VQ35 shortblock. Furthermore, torque doesn't kill rod bolts; revs do.
10-03-2008, 02:03 PM
#92
Not sure what this has to do with the rods being the weak point but k.
The VG rod is actually longer than the VQ which also helps in torque production and less angle sweep.
11-17-2008, 06:03 AM
#93
well, I got the motor.....and been taking it apart. It only has 32K on it. I been thinking of doing some pistons, rings, and rods. Any ideas on beefing up the bottom end for boost + nitrous..........?
11-17-2008, 08:04 AM
#94
well, I was planning on buying that Importperformanceparts.net kit, which includes pistons, pins, bearings, rings, gaskets. The kit runs $1,200, but if you part everything out individually your actually not getting a bad deal. Other then those components, a new set of rod bolt/nut combo and thats about all you can do on the bottom end, besides a different set of rods, but I think they should be strong enough.
11-17-2008, 09:58 AM
#95
I just skim through the thread so I may have missed something...
I've ran a GT35r/T4 on a DE and a DEK and would never have traded for anything else. It spool well and full boost was about 3.5-3.7k @ 10psi, it was a top end monster. If you want something that is even faster on spool but less top end, you may want to look into a GT30r?
When I bought my turbo from PFI, I spent about $1100 but that was a few years ago. Also if you are in the market for a GT35r, maybe look at FP (forcedperformance) variations of the 35r (specifically the 82HTA/86HTA). For basically $300-$500 more, you get faster spool than a standard 35r and it makes more power. It's been proven over and over again in the EVO community that the 82HTA is an awesome turbo!
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m..._Code=Turbo-FP
I've ran a GT35r/T4 on a DE and a DEK and would never have traded for anything else. It spool well and full boost was about 3.5-3.7k @ 10psi, it was a top end monster. If you want something that is even faster on spool but less top end, you may want to look into a GT30r?
When I bought my turbo from PFI, I spent about $1100 but that was a few years ago. Also if you are in the market for a GT35r, maybe look at FP (forcedperformance) variations of the 35r (specifically the 82HTA/86HTA). For basically $300-$500 more, you get faster spool than a standard 35r and it makes more power. It's been proven over and over again in the EVO community that the 82HTA is an awesome turbo!
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m..._Code=Turbo-FP
Last edited by jcy98maxse; 11-17-2008 at 10:00 AM.
07-09-2009, 08:09 AM
#101
Trust me it will not compare to your old car. It can very well make less power and be faster. Think i made 20 less hp but i also made 356 wtq so that put me at 343whp and 356 wtq and ran a best of 12.5@113 so it was not slow at all. U will love the new power when you finally drive it man.
07-09-2009, 08:22 AM
#102
Trust me it will not compare to your old car. It can very well make less power and be faster. Think i made 20 less hp but i also made 356 wtq so that put me at 343whp and 356 wtq and ran a best of 12.5@113 so it was not slow at all. U will love the new power when you finally drive it man.
07-10-2009, 05:06 AM
#104
07-10-2009, 05:32 AM
#105
07-10-2009, 09:26 AM
#107
07-10-2009, 10:41 AM
#109
07-17-2009, 05:31 AM
#115
no ac, however it could have been possible to retain but I didn't want it anyways so I fabbed things up knowing I will get rid of the ac, also the pipes I bought was designed with the same thoughts of no AC.
07-18-2009, 12:39 PM
#116
Boo no A/C blows Bish. i have to have A/C man . i will show yo umy new feedpipe man. it keeps a/c and clears the stock rad and fan.
07-18-2009, 12:58 PM
#118
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