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My Massive I30 Revival and Build Thread

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Old 06-27-2018, 10:16 AM
  #481  
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Hey Nick, just catching up on your thread a little. The cold start issue you are having may have to do with the size of the IACV hose going from your adapter to the vac source. I used to have this problem when I had a 3/8" fitting and hose on my Stephen Max adapter. So i swapped it out with a larger (I think it was 1/2") fitting and hose and the problem went away. I can try to find my thread that I posted about this on but it was years ago.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cardana24 View Post
Hey Nick, just catching up on your thread a little. The cold start issue you are having may have to do with the size of the IACV hose going from your adapter to the vac source. I used to have this problem when I had a 3/8" fitting and hose on my Stephen Max adapter. So i swapped it out with a larger (I think it was 1/2") fitting and hose and the problem went away. I can try to find my thread that I posted about this on but it was years ago.
Hey Carson! That's good info, I'll search and see if I can find it. Thanks for the heads up!
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:16 AM
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Stumbled across your thread and absolutely enjoying it!

Keep up the good work!
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
I removed what was left of the cruise control system (just a vacuum hose) and cleaned up the firewall some more using Purple Power. Clean is good







getting rid of the cruise. I noticed you still have the cruise pump and bracket ,on the strut tower. and i am surprised you didn't ditch all that hard line for the clutch.

Last edited by krismax; 07-08-2018 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 07-08-2018, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by krismax View Post
getting rid of the cruise. I noticed you still have the cruise pump and bracket ,on the strut tower. and i am surprised you didn't ditch all that hard line for the clutch.
Err, care to point out what you're referring to? There are a bunch of things in the pics that I have no idea what they are. I also never understood the purpose of that hard line.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
Err, care to point out what you're referring to? There are a bunch of things in the pics that I have no idea what they are. I also never understood the purpose of that hard line.
Red circled cruise air pump with bracket. Two nuts underneath in wheel well and one bolt seen in picture.

Blue arrow points too part of the clutch line mess part of this in in the picture below.. Ditch all that and get a full SS line.
Third picture shows the room you get with the pump gone.
Attached Thumbnails My Massive I30 Revival and Build Thread-img_0273_li.jpg   My Massive I30 Revival and Build Thread-img_6436.jpg   My Massive I30 Revival and Build Thread-img_6433.jpg  

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Old 07-09-2018, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by krismax View Post
Red circled cruise air pump with bracket. Two nuts underneath in wheel well and one bolt seen in picture.

Blue arrow points too part of the clutch line mess part of this in in the picture below.. Ditch all that and get a full SS line.
Third picture shows the room you get with the pump gone.
I've already got a SS clutch line installed, what does the rest of that clutch stuff do? How can you remove it and still drive the car?
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:27 AM
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You probably have the short SS hose that replaces the 2 rubber hoses on the trans. There is a long hose available that connects the slave to the master. Then you can remove the factory maze of hard lines.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JSutter View Post
You probably have the short SS hose that replaces the 2 rubber hoses on the trans. There is a long hose available that connects the slave to the master. Then you can remove the factory maze of hard lines.
Do you know who makes the long SS hose, or where I can get it from? What is the purpose of all that stuff that you're telling me to remove? I've been on the forum 17 years and this is all news to me!
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:47 AM
  #490  
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I have a one piece slave to master line iffff you want.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:20 AM
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Nisformace has the hose or you can make your own. We're talking about it in this thread, https://maxima.org/forums/5th-genera...g-process.html
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:50 AM
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Hey guys, I've been starting to think about the future of this car, and I really want to get a wider power band from my motor. As of now, I'm basically making great power between 4400-5600, and very little outside of that range. Here's how I want it to look:



I do my best to stay on top of all the new motor swap info, but it's tough. I'm not interested in chasing mega numbers, 280 whp would be enough if my area under the curve was better/more linear. I'm still using 3.0 timing equipment/engine harness/ECU, and Nistune is running the show. I know the ideal solution is to do the 02/03 harness swap, and then drop in the 09+ Maxima motor, but given the money I've invested in Nistune, I'm reluctant to give it up. Also, the 02/03 harness swap is pretty intimidating. What would happen if I tried to just install the 09+ motor with my current wiring/ECU? I know I still wouldn't have VTC, so would the swap be worth the effort? If it got me more area under the curve but not much in terms of peak power, I would probably be in favor. Is it possible to not have that torque dip from 2800-4400, or do all cars have that with VTC disabled? It sounds like some JWT cams would help with maintaining power above 5600, so that's an option for that.

The 6 speed swap also is on my mind, but again, I'm reluctant to give up my Quaife diff....

It sounds like I could get most of the benefits of the 09+ motor by just installing the heads and IM. Can someone explain why 02/03 Maximas hold their power all the way to redline, but mine falls on its face? Is it just to how Tilley set up the cams? Maybe I should go back and run stock VIAS with no NWP BOP to regain my low end, and then put on 09+ heads and JWT cams to get more on the top? 09+ motors still run VIAS, right?

EDIT- I should mention that the car needs to be able to pass emissions testing every year, so not having codes (EGR, etc...) is very important.

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Old 08-22-2018, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
Hey guys, I've been starting to think about the future of this car, and I really want to get a wider power band from my motor. As of now, I'm basically making great power between 4400-5600, and very little outside of that range. Here's how I want it to look:



I do my best to stay on top of all the new motor swap info, but it's tough. I'm not interested in chasing mega numbers, 280 whp would be enough if my area under the curve was better/more linear. I'm still using 3.0 timing equipment/engine harness/ECU, and Nistune is running the show. I know the ideal solution is to do the 02/03 harness swap, and then drop in the 09+ Maxima motor, but given the money I've invested in Nistune, I'm reluctant to give it up. Also, the 02/03 harness swap is pretty intimidating. What would happen if I tried to just install the 09+ motor with my current wiring/ECU? I know I still wouldn't have VTC, so would the swap be worth the effort? If it got me more area under the curve but not much in terms of peak power, I would probably be in favor. Is it possible to not have that torque dip from 2800-4400, or do all cars have that with VTC disabled? It sounds like some JWT cams would help with maintaining power above 5600, so that's an option for that.

The 6 speed swap also is on my mind, but again, I'm reluctant to give up my Quaife diff....

It sounds like I could get most of the benefits of the 09+ motor by just installing the heads and IM. Can someone explain why 02/03 Maximas hold their power all the way to redline, but mine falls on its face? Is it just to how Tilley set up the cams? Maybe I should go back and run stock VIAS with no NWP BOP to regain my low end, and then put on 09+ heads and JWT cams to get more on the top? 09+ motors still run VIAS, right?

EDIT- I should mention that the car needs to be able to pass emissions testing every year, so not having codes (EGR, etc...) is very important.
Theres a lot of questions, so I'll try not to fill this post with word vomit.

Lets start with your current setup.
  • Your power curve looks pretty similar to my old 3.5. Cant really compare the numbers due to dyno type. https://maxima.org/forums/dyno-discu...swap-dyno.html
  • What mods do you have on the engine?
  • 02/03 maximas dont hold their power all the way to redline. They drop off after peak just like the 3.0 USIM.
    • Dyno Graph scaling plays a huge part in this.
09 swap.
  • The main differences are from the heads on up, but there are still some block differences like improved cooling path over the 1st DE. After going through the trouble of sourcing everything individually, tearing the old motor apart, possible machining etc etc, why not just start with a full 09 motor and put the 3.0 timing on that?
  • You asking about power gain over the old 3.5DE is almost like asking will I gain power from installing better flowing heads, hotter cams, and a better flowing UIM? Think of this swap on 3.0 timing as a middle ground between [3.0 USIM to 3.0 00vi] and [3.0 to 3.5de swap].
    • You're getting better heads, cams, and uim, while keeping displacement the same.
  • The 09 on 3.0 timing has not been dynoed to my knowledge. Only numbers I have seen are 95nsSTA's track times. Logic would dictate that you would see more peak power and under the curve due to the additional airflow from engine improvements.
  • If you go with aftermarket cams, you're pretty much guaranteed to lose low end power.
  • This engine has a dual VIAS system.
Emissions
  • Does your state require a tailpipe sniffer or only OBD check?
  • Does your car currently have an EGR installed?
    • Some/most 95/96 ECU tend to be lenient with EGR monitoring. I dont have an EGR installed (only the solenoid & temp sensor) and have have never thrown a code for it on any of my 95 or 96 ECUs, both stock and nistune.
I'm not too well versed on diffs, but what is the difference between the 5mt quaife and the hlsd that is availbe in some 6mt?
A 4.1FD 6MT may help offset your low end woes. But you will also be shifting more often and sooner than on the 5MT.
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Old 08-22-2018, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by schmellyfart View Post
Theres a lot of questions, so I'll try not to fill this post with word vomit.

Lets start with your current setup.
  • Your power curve looks pretty similar to my old 3.5. Cant really compare the numbers due to dyno type. https://maxima.org/forums/dyno-discu...swap-dyno.html
  • What mods do you have on the engine?
  • 02/03 maximas dont hold their power all the way to redline. They drop off after peak just like the 3.0 USIM.
    • Dyno Graph scaling plays a huge part in this.
09 swap.
  • The main differences are from the heads on up, but there are still some block differences like improved cooling path over the 1st DE. After going through the trouble of sourcing everything individually, tearing the old motor apart, possible machining etc etc, why not just start with a full 09 motor and put the 3.0 timing on that?
  • You asking about power gain over the old 3.5DE is almost like asking will I gain power from installing better flowing heads, hotter cams, and a better flowing UIM? Think of this swap on 3.0 timing as a middle ground between [3.0 USIM to 3.0 00vi] and [3.0 to 3.5de swap].
    • You're getting better heads, cams, and uim, while keeping displacement the same.
  • The 09 on 3.0 timing has not been dynoed to my knowledge. Only numbers I have seen are 95nsSTA's track times. Logic would dictate that you would see more peak power and under the curve due to the additional airflow from engine improvements.
  • If you go with aftermarket cams, you're pretty much guaranteed to lose low end power.
  • This engine has a dual VIAS system.
Emissions
  • Does your state require a tailpipe sniffer or only OBD check?
  • Does your car currently have an EGR installed?
    • Some/most 95/96 ECU tend to be lenient with EGR monitoring. I dont have an EGR installed (only the solenoid & temp sensor) and have have never thrown a code for it on any of my 95 or 96 ECUs, both stock and nistune.
I'm not too well versed on diffs, but what is the difference between the 5mt quaife and the hlsd that is availbe in some 6mt?
A 4.1FD 6MT may help offset your low end woes. But you will also be shifting more often and sooner than on the 5MT.
This is EXACTLY what I needed, thank you!

Here are the mods:
-2002/03 Maxima 3.5 motor, no SS IM mod
-K&N filter, velocity stack
-2001/02 Pathfinder 70mm TB, custom adapter and throttle cable bracket from sicivic89
-NWP thermal intake manifold spacers
-NWP Block off plate
-Nistune ECU, 7k RPM rev-limit
-Cattman headers
-OEM cat
-2.5 resonated b-pipe
-Cattman muffler
-Aeromotive AFPR

You mentioned that 02/03 motors don't hold their power to redline, are later DE motors any better? Are the 09+ motors appreciably better? Will I always have that torque dip with 3.0 timing even with an 09+ motor, or could that be down to how Tilley set the timing originally, or which cams he used?

How many people have put 3.0 timing on 09+ motors? Does the dual VIAS add complication to the swap? Is it retained and functioning?

How much extra work is it to install aftermarket cams when you're converting it to 3.0 timing gear?

My state only does OBD checks for emissions. For 2+ years I ran without the EGR plumbed back into the IM without a code, and then one day it came up and nothing I've done has made it go away (I still haven't plumbed it back in). I'm thinking I may have to tap it back into the IM if I'm going to pass next year.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the difference is between a Quaife and a stock HLSD. Could be nothing for all I know. As far as 6 speeds go, I'm worried it would force me to shift to third gear at auto-x, which would really suck. Is it really worth the trouble?

Here's my problem: I don't know if I can do the 3.0 timing swap myself. I can pull the motor and disassemble it, but I've never done timing before and probably shouldn't start with this job. I want to do the project in my garage, but I can't figure out how to take care of the timing gear swap.
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
This is EXACTLY what I needed, thank you!

Here are the mods:
-2002/03 Maxima 3.5 motor, no SS IM mod
-K&N filter, velocity stack
-2001/02 Pathfinder 70mm TB, custom adapter and throttle cable bracket from sicivic89
-NWP thermal intake manifold spacers
-NWP Block off plate
-Nistune ECU, 7k RPM rev-limit
-Cattman headers
-OEM cat
-2.5 resonated b-pipe
-Cattman muffler
-Aeromotive AFPR

You mentioned that 02/03 motors don't hold their power to redline, are later DE motors any better? Are the 09+ motors appreciably better? Will I always have that torque dip with 3.0 timing even with an 09+ motor, or could that be down to how Tilley set the timing originally, or which cams he used?

How many people have put 3.0 timing on 09+ motors? Does the dual VIAS add complication to the swap? Is it retained and functioning?

How much extra work is it to install aftermarket cams when you're converting it to 3.0 timing gear?

My state only does OBD checks for emissions. For 2+ years I ran without the EGR plumbed back into the IM without a code, and then one day it came up and nothing I've done has made it go away (I still haven't plumbed it back in). I'm thinking I may have to tap it back into the IM if I'm going to pass next year.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the difference is between a Quaife and a stock HLSD. Could be nothing for all I know. As far as 6 speeds go, I'm worried it would force me to shift to third gear at auto-x, which would really suck. Is it really worth the trouble?

Here's my problem: I don't know if I can do the 3.0 timing swap myself. I can pull the motor and disassemble it, but I've never done timing before and probably shouldn't start with this job. I want to do the project in my garage, but I can't figure out how to take care of the timing gear swap.
A good place to start for more power is a 3" catback. The guys at motordyne have shown that these engines really do love to breathe. I picked up ~1.5 mph in the quarter mile (if memory serves me correctly) going from a cattman 3" catback to a 3" side exit.

Not really, I was trying to stick with your terms for consistency. The fwd aluminum manifold DE all fall on their face after peak power. The fwd hr/7th gen engines (still technically a DE, but I digress), these engines hold their power up top. Lik 3.0de vs 3.0dek. Look at 5.7 swap dynos. Which torque dip are you talking about? Again, it's hard to say for sure without seeing a dyno of this engine on 3.0 timing. But you do have me curious and looking into local dynos.

Id say probably under twenty. I've made a number of cam adapters for this swap, and there are a handful using de cams or drilling the cams out. The VIAS is just another step of the swap just like the 3.5de and 00vi swaps where you will need some type of vtec contriller or rpm switch to use. I havent gotten around to hooking mine up yet.

Cams are going to be additional 32 bolts and a fair amount of reassembly/disassembly changing out lifters to get valve lash in spec.

Its possible one of your sensors, solenoids, or wiring has bit the dust.

It all depends on what you're looking to get out of the transmission. If you're going over 50 say hello to 3rd gear. You won't be able to do 80 in 2nd gear with the 6mt.

Setting timing on a 3.0 looks scarier than it really is. The FSM is pretty detailed and walks you through step by step. I have a fwd hr that I'll be changing over to 3.0 timing - I could record a video setting timing if that would help you?
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by schmellyfart View Post
A good place to start for more power is a 3" catback. The guys at motordyne have shown that these engines really do love to breathe. I picked up ~1.5 mph in the quarter mile (if memory serves me correctly) going from a cattman 3" catback to a 3" side exit.

Not really, I was trying to stick with your terms for consistency. The fwd aluminum manifold DE all fall on their face after peak power. The fwd hr/7th gen engines (still technically a DE, but I digress), these engines hold their power up top. Lik 3.0de vs 3.0dek. Look at 5.7 swap dynos. Which torque dip are you talking about? Again, it's hard to say for sure without seeing a dyno of this engine on 3.0 timing. But you do have me curious and looking into local dynos.

Id say probably under twenty. I've made a number of cam adapters for this swap, and there are a handful using de cams or drilling the cams out. The VIAS is just another step of the swap just like the 3.5de and 00vi swaps where you will need some type of vtec contriller or rpm switch to use. I havent gotten around to hooking mine up yet.

Cams are going to be additional 32 bolts and a fair amount of reassembly/disassembly changing out lifters to get valve lash in spec.

Its possible one of your sensors, solenoids, or wiring has bit the dust.

It all depends on what you're looking to get out of the transmission. If you're going over 50 say hello to 3rd gear. You won't be able to do 80 in 2nd gear with the 6mt.

Setting timing on a 3.0 looks scarier than it really is. The FSM is pretty detailed and walks you through step by step. I have a fwd hr that I'll be changing over to 3.0 timing - I could record a video setting timing if that would help you?
Hooray, another excellent post!

The 3" exhaust thing kind of scares me, I'm worried it will be way too loud. The way my exhaust sounds now is absolutely perfect to my ears, and I would hate to change it. I think I'm okay giving up even 10 whp to keep my exhaust at a reasonable volume and tone. I would be far more inclined to monkey with a 4" intake setup to chase extra power.

Okay, so the 09+ motors hold their power much better up top, that solves one of my issues. The other is that torque dip from about 3000-4000. But that may be resolved by keeping VIAS active and not running the NWP BOP. Oh wait, does any of the NWP stuff for the early 3.5s transfer to the 09+ motors?

When it comes to drilling cams vs. your adapters, I'm sure you're a little biased in terms of what you'd recommend. I know that Crusher103's cam adapters broke and messed his motor up, but I'm not sure on the details. Were those your adapters? Have any of yours had a failure yet? I assume the ideal setup is to run the 09+ cams and not 3.0 or earlier 3.5 cams? If I go the cam drilling route, I assume that means they need to be removed from the engine, which would make the process much more involved? In which case, getting upgraded cams wouldn't really add any labor to the project?

You mention to look at 5.7 swap dynos, but those wouldn't really be comparable to what I would be doing since they have working VTC. Does disabling VTC remove power evenly across the powerband, or does it create dips/uneven power delivery?

As far as my EGR system goes, I tested the sensor and solenoid according to the FSM and they were both in spec. I cleaned out my tube as well, but it was only partially clogged, and yet I still have a CEL. If you feel like helping troubleshoot this, check out post #410 on page 11 of this thread.

Even with my 7000 rpm rev limit, there's no way 2nd gear goes to 80 mph with the 5-speed. I want to say max speed in 2nd is like 65 mph? But if 2nd in a 4.1 6-speed only goes to 50, that's going to make auto-x kind of annoying.

If you're going to set 3.0 timing on an HR, then hell yes, I would love to see a video of that!! Hell, I would even pay for something like that!

Thanks for taking the time to give detailed responses to my many questions, it is greatly appreciated!
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
Even with my 7000 rpm rev limit, there's no way 2nd gear goes to 80 mph with the 5-speed. I want to say max speed in 2nd is like 65 mph? But if 2nd in a 4.1 6-speed only goes to 50, that's going to make auto-x kind of annoying.
What's your current auto-x tire choice or diameter? Using a 24.7" (which I think you ran prior) your 2nd gear top speed drops from 84 to 70mph with the 6sp. I haven't seen many course designs where that would be an issue (I have been wrong many times before however)
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Old 08-23-2018, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by BEJAY1 View Post
What's your current auto-x tire choice or diameter? Using a 24.7" (which I think you ran prior) your 2nd gear top speed drops from 84 to 70mph with the 6sp. I haven't seen many course designs where that would be an issue (I have been wrong many times before however)
I run a 245/40/17 Hoosier A6, although I have a set of used A7s waiting to be mounted when the A6s wear out. Where are you guys getting these 80+ mph speeds for 2nd gear from? I could swear 2nd doesn't go much over 65 mph, but I too have been wrong many times before. 70 mph would be more than enough for me, but that's far off from the 50 mph that schmellyfart is referring to. Where are you guys getting your numbers from?
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:39 PM
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On the HR intake cams, where the cam dowel pin is for the VTC phaser gear and where you would want the dowel for a 3.0 cam timing setup overlaps. I don't think an adapter that maintains the 3.0 timing marks is safely possible. Traditional cam adapters for the old DEs have the dowel pins phased opposite and a few degrees from each other. This put the adapter dowels in a place where they do not to interfere with each other. The dowel location on the HR cams reverts back to similar to the 3.0 timing. BUT it's not close enough to bolt on and go. I outlined this in my swap thread. I will venture to guess that most if not all of the 4.7 gen swaps before me did not account for this and ended up with the wrong intake cam timing. Obviously resulting in less than ideal performance.

There are other options, like re-drilling the cams/cam gears in the correct orientation like I did. Or machining the gears with a new dowel and timing location. There's one more but I'll leave it up to the person who figured it out to mention that.

I cross referenced all the 3.5 cam timing information I could get my hands on, graphed it and interpolated what would be a mild performance intake timing advance that wouldn't rob me of MPGs (it was a daily). Conveniently enough it worked out to having the same lobe center angle as a 3.0 intake cam. I lost 1 mpg from my old DE highway (31 to 30) and ended up gaining 3-4 mph overall on my trap if I remember right.

I still think 4" for an intake is too big for a an older DE that flows less and revs lower, especially with a 2.5" exhaust.

From a static timing standpoint these torque dips you keep bringing up are a result of engine harmonics. Intake length, runner length, effective runner length (VIAS), header primaries, secondary pipe length, and valve timing all change the volumetric efficiency. Timing, cam more so than ignition, can dynamically change the VE to promote cylinder filling and make up for adverse engine harmonics. From a static cam timing standpoint if you have a dip, you can bump up the ignition timing (think technosquare ecu for MEVI setups if you remember that) to help with VE. Altering cam phasing with a variable setup in this area can promote cylinder filling but continue to change so that negative harmonics aren't shifted elsewhere.

In short, altering cam timing may move your dip to another spot instead of getting rid of it. On a static timing setup you can mess with intake lengths, VIAS options and ignition timing to remedy it.
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Old 08-23-2018, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 95naSTA View Post
On the HR intake cams, where the cam dowel pin is for the VTC phaser gear and where you would want the dowel for a 3.0 cam timing setup overlaps. I don't think an adapter that maintains the 3.0 timing marks is safely possible. Traditional cam adapters for the old DEs have the dowel pins phased opposite and a few degrees from each other. This put the adapter dowels in a place where they do not to interfere with each other. The dowel location on the HR cams reverts back to similar to the 3.0 timing. BUT it's not close enough to bolt on and go. I outlined this in my swap thread. I will venture to guess that most if not all of the 4.7 gen swaps before me did not account for this and ended up with the wrong intake cam timing. Obviously resulting in less than ideal performance.

There are other options, like re-drilling the cams/cam gears in the correct orientation like I did. Or machining the gears with a new dowel and timing location. There's one more but I'll leave it up to the person who figured it out to mention that.

I cross referenced all the 3.5 cam timing information I could get my hands on, graphed it and interpolated what would be a mild performance intake timing advance that wouldn't rob me of MPGs (it was a daily). Conveniently enough it worked out to having the same lobe center angle as a 3.0 intake cam. I lost 1 mpg from my old DE highway (31 to 30) and ended up gaining 3-4 mph overall on my trap if I remember right.

I still think 4" for an intake is too big for a an older DE that flows less and revs lower, especially with a 2.5" exhaust.

From a static timing standpoint these torque dips you keep bringing up are a result of engine harmonics. Intake length, runner length, effective runner length (VIAS), header primaries, secondary pipe length, and valve timing all change the volumetric efficiency. Timing, cam more so than ignition, can dynamically change the VE to promote cylinder filling and make up for adverse engine harmonics. From a static cam timing standpoint if you have a dip, you can bump up the ignition timing (think technosquare ecu for MEVI setups if you remember that) to help with VE. Altering cam phasing with a variable setup in this area can promote cylinder filling but continue to change so that negative harmonics aren't shifted elsewhere.

In short, altering cam timing may move your dip to another spot instead of getting rid of it. On a static timing setup you can mess with intake lengths, VIAS options and ignition timing to remedy it.
So.....how much would it cost to pay you to come down the DC and set up my timing for me? Because there's no way I'm going to be able to do all of that successfully myself
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:22 PM
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3" exhaust with a huge resonator to keep your ears happy.
3" resonated test pipe.
3.5" length tuned intake.
SSIM with port matched lower.
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Sounds goooood to me.
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
So.....how much would it cost to pay you to come down the DC and set up my timing for me? Because there's no way I'm going to be able to do all of that successfully myself
Sorry, I would if I wasn't trying to cram 10lbs of **** into a 5lb bag with my free time, all the time. It's really not that bad. Just keep reading until it can't do anything but make sense.
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
Hooray, another excellent post!

The 3" exhaust thing kind of scares me, I'm worried it will be way too loud. The way my exhaust sounds now is absolutely perfect to my ears, and I would hate to change it. I think I'm okay giving up even 10 whp to keep my exhaust at a reasonable volume and tone. I would be far more inclined to monkey with a 4" intake setup to chase extra power.

Okay, so the 09+ motors hold their power much better up top, that solves one of my issues. The other is that torque dip from about 3000-4000. But that may be resolved by keeping VIAS active and not running the NWP BOP. Oh wait, does any of the NWP stuff for the early 3.5s transfer to the 09+ motors?

When it comes to drilling cams vs. your adapters, I'm sure you're a little biased in terms of what you'd recommend. I know that Crusher103's cam adapters broke and messed his motor up, but I'm not sure on the details. Were those your adapters? Have any of yours had a failure yet? I assume the ideal setup is to run the 09+ cams and not 3.0 or earlier 3.5 cams? If I go the cam drilling route, I assume that means they need to be removed from the engine, which would make the process much more involved? In which case, getting upgraded cams wouldn't really add any labor to the project?

You mention to look at 5.7 swap dynos, but those wouldn't really be comparable to what I would be doing since they have working VTC. Does disabling VTC remove power evenly across the powerband, or does it create dips/uneven power delivery?

As far as my EGR system goes, I tested the sensor and solenoid according to the FSM and they were both in spec. I cleaned out my tube as well, but it was only partially clogged, and yet I still have a CEL. If you feel like helping troubleshoot this, check out post #410 on page 11 of this thread.

Even with my 7000 rpm rev limit, there's no way 2nd gear goes to 80 mph with the 5-speed. I want to say max speed in 2nd is like 65 mph? But if 2nd in a 4.1 6-speed only goes to 50, that's going to make auto-x kind of annoying.

If you're going to set 3.0 timing on an HR, then hell yes, I would love to see a video of that!! Hell, I would even pay for something like that!

Thanks for taking the time to give detailed responses to my many questions, it is greatly appreciated!
Bigger diameter doesn't necessarily mean bigger sound. Theres a massive magnaflow 6" round ~24" long muffler thats been used to replace and quiet down cattman exhausts. Look up the carltonator. You can add a resonated test pipe on top of that. I've personally used vibrant ultra quiet to quiet down my cattman3" when I had it. When I get around to making a new 3" catback, I will be utilizing that mangaflow muffler.

The only things that really transfer over to the new motor are stock 3.0 timing equipment, water pipes, oil pans, and your afpr. You'll need a new tb adapter, throttle cable bracker (if keeping with pftb), and cam adapters.

95naSTA covered a lot of your powerband questions so i'll leave it at that.

I would only say I am biased based on the work required for those without access to the proper equipment and/or skills. Personally, I don't like the idea of tearing down an engine past the cams. Is it difficult, not really - but it tedious and I've always shyed away from a serious teardown/build. I have never had a set of my cam adapters break. The old standard 'stephenmax' style cam adapters are likely to break due to imprpoer torque on the cam bolt and/or the fact that the dowels are only attached to a 3mm thick piece of metal.
My cam adapters are just as secure as drilling the cam itself, but without the hassle. I modify the OEM cam gears to set cam timing.
If you remove the stock cams to drill them, you do not need to check for valve lash. If you go with upgraded cams, you will need to take the extra step to drill them (should you go that route) and check valve lash.

It was a little later for me and I pulled those numbers based on my vague memory, you may need to search a little

Yes it would be 3.0 timing on a 7th gen maxima engine with my cam adapters. Payment isnt necessary, but I wouldn't say no


Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
So.....how much would it cost to pay you to come down the DC and set up my timing for me? Because there's no way I'm going to be able to do all of that successfully myself
That's where my cam adapters come in
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Old 08-24-2018, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
I run a 245/40/17 Hoosier A6, although I have a set of used A7s waiting to be mounted when the A6s wear out. Where are you guys getting these 80+ mph speeds for 2nd gear from? I could swear 2nd doesn't go much over 65 mph, but I too have been wrong many times before. 70 mph would be more than enough for me, but that's far off from the 50 mph that schmellyfart is referring to. Where are you guys getting your numbers from?
I was off, that Hoosier's only a 24.3" diam. It drops from 72mph to 68mph, still plenty I'd think. To me it looks like the gearing would be an advantage; guessing on the dyno curves (w falloff @ 4750rpm tq & 6750rpm hp) your power sweet spot drops from 49-69mph to 47-59mph with the 6sp. (essentially the same effect as a smaller diam tire)

p.s. I run old A6's too, bought some extra's with a '12 date code way back and still trying to use em up. That's probably holding me back some, maybe I'll grab some cheap A7's after Lincoln's finished next month.

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Old 08-24-2018, 09:26 PM
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I checked my gear speeds on the way home from work. 4.1 6MT 245/50R16
1st gear, 6500rpm, ~36mph (I think 7k was close to 40)
2nd gear, 7000rpm, ~60mph
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 95naSTA View Post
Sorry, I would if I wasn't trying to cram 10lbs of **** into a 5lb bag with my free time, all the time. It's really not that bad. Just keep reading until it can't do anything but make sense.
You mentioned you did a lot of calculations to determine the best way to time the cams, would you be able to post up any of that information? Did you use adapters or have them redrilled?
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by schmellyfart View Post
Bigger diameter doesn't necessarily mean bigger sound. Theres a massive magnaflow 6" round ~24" long muffler thats been used to replace and quiet down cattman exhausts. Look up the carltonator. You can add a resonated test pipe on top of that. I've personally used vibrant ultra quiet to quiet down my cattman3" when I had it. When I get around to making a new 3" catback, I will be utilizing that mangaflow muffler.

The only things that really transfer over to the new motor are stock 3.0 timing equipment, water pipes, oil pans, and your afpr. You'll need a new tb adapter, throttle cable bracker (if keeping with pftb), and cam adapters.

95naSTA covered a lot of your powerband questions so i'll leave it at that.

I would only say I am biased based on the work required for those without access to the proper equipment and/or skills. Personally, I don't like the idea of tearing down an engine past the cams. Is it difficult, not really - but it tedious and I've always shyed away from a serious teardown/build. I have never had a set of my cam adapters break. The old standard 'stephenmax' style cam adapters are likely to break due to imprpoer torque on the cam bolt and/or the fact that the dowels are only attached to a 3mm thick piece of metal.
My cam adapters are just as secure as drilling the cam itself, but without the hassle. I modify the OEM cam gears to set cam timing.
If you remove the stock cams to drill them, you do not need to check for valve lash. If you go with upgraded cams, you will need to take the extra step to drill them (should you go that route) and check valve lash.

It was a little later for me and I pulled those numbers based on my vague memory, you may need to search a little

Yes it would be 3.0 timing on a 7th gen maxima engine with my cam adapters. Payment isnt necessary, but I wouldn't say no

That's where my cam adapters come in
Thank you for the excellent and detailed post!

I have a feeling my subframe connectors would get in the way of a massive resonator in that area behind the cat. But I'll keep an open mind about a 3" setup. I wish I could weld....

I didn't realize there were differences between your cam adapters and the earlier Stephenmax adapters. I'm guessing that those are the ones that Crusher used? I would love to see a side by side comparison!

I'm serious about paying you to make a quality/in focus video going over how you install your cam adapters and set the timing. Are you planning on doing that any time soon?

Do you make an adapter so I could reuse my PFTB, or should I switch to something larger? IIRC 95naSTA was using a 75mm TB, but I don't know what it was off of.

I still have my old DEK motor rotting away in my mom's driveway, I should probably rip out its timing equipment before sending it to the junkyard. I assume DEK timing stuff is the same as DE?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my dumb questions!
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BEJAY1 View Post
I was off, that Hoosier's only a 24.3" diam. It drops from 72mph to 68mph, still plenty I'd think. To me it looks like the gearing would be an advantage; guessing on the dyno curves (w falloff @ 4750rpm tq & 6750rpm hp) your power sweet spot drops from 49-69mph to 47-59mph with the 6sp. (essentially the same effect as a smaller diam tire)

p.s. I run old A6's too, bought some extra's with a '12 date code way back and still trying to use em up. That's probably holding me back some, maybe I'll grab some cheap A7's after Lincoln's finished next month.
I still don't think 72 is right for a 5-speed 2nd gear at 7000, but you've got the numbers, so I guess I'm wrong! 68 would be more than enough with the 6 speed for auto-x, which is good to know. Thanks for running the numbers!!!

Yeah, I still have a set of A6s that I need to run. I recently picked up a set of used A7s for $250, so I need to burn off the A6s so I can go faster Hopefully I can run a full schedule in 2019, 2018 just got away from me and I was tied up with more important things.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by schmellyfart View Post
I checked my gear speeds on the way home from work. 4.1 6MT 245/50R16
1st gear, 6500rpm, ~36mph (I think 7k was close to 40)
2nd gear, 7000rpm, ~60mph
I like those numbers That's a big difference from the 3.8 FD! So you did the whole Sentra guts in a Maxima case swap deal? How bad was it?
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
I like those numbers That's a big difference from the 3.8 FD! So you did the whole Sentra guts in a Maxima case swap deal? How bad was it?
Do you know whether those mph's were calculated from tire revs/mile or were they calculated based on nominal tire size? If it's the latter, the calculated numbers are going to be about 3% high, or 67 against 69 calculated. This is due to tire tread circumferential compression as it passes through the contact patch (and it's something that none of the online speeds-in-gears calculators seem to know about. 3% is really a good average for most street tires, some are more, for some the correction could be less than 2%.

If it wasn't 2nd gear and autocrossing, it would mostly be an academic interest kind of thing.


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Old 09-21-2018, 07:23 PM
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Here's the info on my 75mm TB. I didn't use an adapter.

https://maxima.org/forums/all-motor/650664-2k9-tb-adapater-plate.html
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
I like those numbers That's a big difference from the 3.8 FD! So you did the whole Sentra guts in a Maxima case swap deal? How bad was it?
Not a chance. I don't care to mess with checking preload, clearance, etc. I used an 05 maxima/altima open diff trans. 05+ has upgraded synchros n stuff. 04 might but I know 05 does for sure.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Do you know whether those mph's were calculated from tire revs/mile or were they calculated based on nominal tire size? If it's the latter, the calculated numbers are going to be about 3% high, or 67 against 69 calculated. This is due to tire tread circumferential compression as it passes through the contact patch (and it's something that none of the online speeds-in-gears calculators seem to know about. 3% is really a good average for most street tires, some are more, for some the correction could be less than 2%.

If it wasn't 2nd gear and autocrossing, it would mostly be an academic interest kind of thing.

Norm
Good point as always Norm. Hoosier A6/A7 tires have virtually no tread, and ultra stiff sidewalls, so the compression is probably real low ~1%. Speaking of rev limits, last month was the first time I've bounced 3x off my Teg limiter a single run. Sorry, no datalogger connected but you can hear each one.
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Old 09-23-2018, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
Thank you for the excellent and detailed post!

I have a feeling my subframe connectors would get in the way of a massive resonator in that area behind the cat. But I'll keep an open mind about a 3" setup. I wish I could weld....

I didn't realize there were differences between your cam adapters and the earlier Stephenmax adapters. I'm guessing that those are the ones that Crusher used? I would love to see a side by side comparison!

I'm serious about paying you to make a quality/in focus video going over how you install your cam adapters and set the timing. Are you planning on doing that any time soon?

Do you make an adapter so I could reuse my PFTB, or should I switch to something larger? IIRC 95naSTA was using a 75mm TB, but I don't know what it was off of.

I still have my old DEK motor rotting away in my mom's driveway, I should probably rip out its timing equipment before sending it to the junkyard. I assume DEK timing stuff is the same as DE?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my dumb questions!
Sorry, just now noticed your response.

I assume you have the stage 3 with horizontal and diagonal crossbars? They also have 5" round mufflers. You also also look into using multiple shorter resonators back there to fit around the SFC. I scored a cheap 90A flux core welder off of craigslist not too long ago. Its a cheap and easy way to get started welding since you don't need gas for it. The welds aren't as pretty as anything gas shielded if that is a factor for you.

To be honest, I'm not sure what he used - I know hes done a couple 3.5 swaps. I really should make a post about the cam adapters, I've got a blown 3.5 sitting in my garage waiting for me to teardown (deloa84's old car, and coincidentally the first 6mt swap I did). Obviously you can just look at pics of the stephenmax adapters, but its another thing seeing them side by side. For now you can look at the pic in my sig that shows the cam adapters.

Define soon I have plans to do so by the end of the year, Traveling for work a lot is a curse and a blessing, haha. What I really want to do is a complete how to swap series of videos.

Right now I do make adapters for the PFTB to the Gen II DE motors. As 95naSTA posted, he converted (dbw to cable) a stock 75mm 09 max tb for his swap. Right now I have no idea what TB is beneficial for this motor. I'm working on making plans to do a bunch of dyno testing for VIAS, SSIM, TB, and possibly MAF sizing as well.

YES, tear all of that stuff out now. Oil pans, water pipes, sensors, timing, mounts, brackets. Keep track of all bolts. Do you have any 00vi parts leftover on that motor? I'm on the hunt for some if you're looking to sell.
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Old 09-27-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Do you know whether those mph's were calculated from tire revs/mile or were they calculated based on nominal tire size? If it's the latter, the calculated numbers are going to be about 3% high, or 67 against 69 calculated. This is due to tire tread circumferential compression as it passes through the contact patch (and it's something that none of the online speeds-in-gears calculators seem to know about. 3% is really a good average for most street tires, some are more, for some the correction could be less than 2%.

If it wasn't 2nd gear and autocrossing, it would mostly be an academic interest kind of thing.

Norm
Hi Norm! I have no idea how they are calculated, but I appreciate your insight into the matter as always. Yes, 2nd gear in auto-x is serious business!

Originally Posted by 95naSTA
Here's the info on my 75mm TB. I didn't use an adapter.
https://maxima.org/forums/all-motor/...ter-plate.html
Looks like that was a few years ago, is this still the best/only method for attaching an 09+ TB to 02-08 UIMs? I assume this won't be an issue if I run a full 09+ motor? Then I would just need to worry about converting it to cable-style, right?

Originally Posted by schmellyfart
Not a chance. I don't care to mess with checking preload, clearance, etc. I used an 05 maxima/altima open diff trans. 05+ has upgraded synchros n stuff. 04 might but I know 05 does for sure.
Ha, yeah, that's how I felt reading through the thread detailing the process. Ain't no way I'd be comfortable essentially rebuilding an entire transmission by myself. Why did you go with an open diff? Were any more "upgrades" ever made to the 6 speed trans aside from the better synchros?

Originally Posted by schmellyfart
Sorry, just now noticed your response.

I assume you have the stage 3 with horizontal and diagonal crossbars? They also have 5" round mufflers. You also also look into using multiple shorter resonators back there to fit around the SFC. I scored a cheap 90A flux core welder off of craigslist not too long ago. Its a cheap and easy way to get started welding since you don't need gas for it. The welds aren't as pretty as anything gas shielded if that is a factor for you.

To be honest, I'm not sure what he used - I know hes done a couple 3.5 swaps. I really should make a post about the cam adapters, I've got a blown 3.5 sitting in my garage waiting for me to teardown (deloa84's old car, and coincidentally the first 6mt swap I did). Obviously you can just look at pics of the stephenmax adapters, but its another thing seeing them side by side. For now you can look at the pic in my sig that shows the cam adapters.

Define soon I have plans to do so by the end of the year, Traveling for work a lot is a curse and a blessing, haha. What I really want to do is a complete how to swap series of videos.

Right now I do make adapters for the PFTB to the Gen II DE motors. As 95naSTA posted, he converted (dbw to cable) a stock 75mm 09 max tb for his swap. Right now I have no idea what TB is beneficial for this motor. I'm working on making plans to do a bunch of dyno testing for VIAS, SSIM, TB, and possibly MAF sizing as well.

YES, tear all of that stuff out now. Oil pans, water pipes, sensors, timing, mounts, brackets. Keep track of all bolts. Do you have any 00vi parts leftover on that motor? I'm on the hunt for some if you're looking to sell.
Yeah, sorry for all of my delayed responses, I'm not getting email notification for this thread right now.

I'm not sure if I have stage 2 or 3 subframe connectors, but I have all the horizontal and diagonal bars.

Yes, you should really make a post about cam adapters, I would read it Just be sure to post a link to it in here, otherwise I'll never see it! Side by side pics of the two cam adapters would be great!

Soon? Like, within the next year? I'm in no rush! YES, make some detailed how-to videos, that would be so helpful! And of course dyno experiments would also be quite welcome

Ok, I'll go grab the old DEK motor and bring it to my house. All the 00vi parts were sold long ago unfortunately.
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:32 PM
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This thread is fantastic.
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Old 11-17-2018, 04:16 PM
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I need some help dealing with what should be a simple electrical issue!

I think my problems all started over a year ago when I tried installing LED interior lights that a guy here on the org was selling. None of the LEDs worked, and when I went to reinstall the stock bulbs, I had trouble getting them to work again. Since that time, the door light on my DS door hasn't worked, no matter how many new bulbs I try. Same thing with one of my front map lights. The main interior light has been weak and intermittent since I tried an LED in its place too.

Well today I decided I would dig into the problem and see if I could fix it. I popped off the cover for my dead DS door light and checked for continuity with my multimeter, and it had continuity. However when I checked to see if it had power, I got something like 0.03V. I had my MM set to DC10A. Pushing and releasing the door plunger didn't change the reading. I then went over to my working PS door light. I pressed the plunger down and removed the bulb. It had continuity, but when I released the plunger, it didn't have any power going to it. I then pressed the plunger back down and plugged the bulb back in. It no longer works, and it's not burnt out! I then went to check the front map lights. The one on the DS hasn't worked in a while, but the PS one has. I checked for continuity with the PS bulb lit up. The DS had continuity, but when I checked the lit up PS bulb, it went out and never came back on! The PS has continuity. It's almost like I'm blowing out fuses for the individual lights, but I know those don't exist. I went around and checked all my fuses with my MM and all have continuity. How in the world are the lights dying just by me removing them or touching them with my MM? Why are they not getting power?

Also, I re-tried the procedure to have the body module check for error codes associated with the door locks, since my door locks have a mind of their own, and I often have to unlock the car (with my alarm fob) five times before all the doors unlock. When I did this test a year ago, it said the PS front door lock actuator was bad. Today, with most of the interior lights burnt out, I was unable to get the car into diagnostic mode. I wonder if the diagnostic mode can only be accessed if all/most of the interior lights are working? IIRC it uses the interior lights to tell you what the code is by blinking.

My electrical troubleshooting skills are pretty weak, but I'm trying to learn. Does anyone have any ideas as to what I've done to my poor car?

EDIT: Welp, I'm an idiot. I went through my electrical books and some youtube videos this morning and realized I made a terrible mistake yesterday. When I was testing for voltage, I had the red lead plugged into the 10A hole on the MM instead of the voltage hole, and I'm pretty sure I made the problem worse. The reason I had it in there instead of the V hole was because I was previously testing for a parasitic drain, which I believe is tested using the amp setting. The only thing is I'm not sure how or where I made the problem worse, since I can't find a blown fuse anywhere. Is there a module that controls all the interior lights that I could have blown up?

Edit 2:
I learned my lesson about using the amp hole on the MM! I had it in there because I had just finished testing for a parasitic drain and I didn't think to switch it back to V/ohm. I clearly can't learn electrical stuff from a book, so I guess I'll just have to keep making mistakes until it sinks in! As far as I can tell the MM is still working, so I've got that going for me....

I re-did my tests using correct methodology that my friend walked me through over the phone. Thanks Brian, you're the best! Here are the results:



And here's some info about the body control module (BCM) from the FSM:









Brian seems to think I've got a bad ground somewhere related to the PS door light. He recommended I find trace it to the ground and/or the BCM. What I don't understand is how I had three working lights yesterday (out of five) if I have a bad ground. If there are no blown fuses right now, and lights still aren't working in any location, I can't help but think something fried inside the BCM. Brian also wondered if one of the door switches/plungers is going bad and not letting enough current get to the bulbs. We know everything is getting voltage, but we don't know what's going on with the current. Am I understanding this correctly?

The BCM controls my locks, interior lights, and the sleep mode for the car. I've got no interior lights, locks with a mind of their own, and a HUGE parasitic drain. If the BCM is faulty and not going into sleep mode, I believe that could cause a large drain, no? My lack of understanding is pushing me to believe the BCM is the cause of all my problems, but I know it's probably not that simple. Does anyone know what is typically involved with replacing a BCM on a 90s Japanese car? Does it need to be programed to match my car/key?

More to the point, since I'm unable to make sense of wiring diagrams, how can I figure out where the ground is for that PS door light? I'm pretty sure I should start there, but I'm not sure how.

Edit 3:
I went back for like the 4th time and did find fuse #26 to be blown. Maybe I missed it before since it's up so high in the box? Interestingly enough, I found a 10A fuse in there, even though it's supposed to be 7.5A. Hopefully that extra current that got through didn't mess up whatever that fuse is protecting I JUST went out and replaced all of the interior bulbs, and I now have map and overhead lights back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But still, no door lights. Back to the drawing board....

Last edited by 95maxrider; 11-18-2018 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 12-05-2018, 07:17 AM
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what headlights are in your sig. and can they fit the 4th gen max
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 98max98 View Post
what headlights are in your sig. and can they fit the 4th gen max
Those are Cefiro headlights with FX-R projectors installed. They technically fit in a Maxima, but not well as the curves at the fender don't match up between the two cars.
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